News Editorial Linking Dec 7, Sept 11, And Nov 8

[EmmaOwl]

The title. This bothered me. Does it make sense to add November 8th, 2016, with December 7th and September 11th?

It was very specifically those three dates.... essentially saying that Nov. 8th was one of the 3 worst dates in American history.

This was in the new york times and I just recovered the link to show anyone who missed it. It's been heavy on my mind. The editorial, linked here, is called "What Trump Is Doing Is Not O.K." And if I had a forum all to myself, I would put my rejoinder like this "What Thomas L. Friedman Says Is Not O.K." I don't have a forum all to myself, so I'm turning here.

Whatever negativity -or positivity- anyone feels about Trump, I think it's made irrelevant, when this writer states:

"we were attacked on Dec. 7, 1941, we were attacked on Sept. 11, 2001, and we were attacked on Nov. 8, 2016. That most recent attack didn’t involve a horrible loss of lives, but it was devastating in its own way."​

I dunno. It bugged me. It seems like a very inappropriate comparison to me. I'm wondering what others might think.
Please know that it is NOT my attempt to be inflammatory or even debate it....
I'm wondering others think very specifically to this quoted sentence. Was it okay to publish this? Or do you think the writer is doing wrong by making such a severe comparison?

I think it goes to far. However, I have good reason to be biased. Actually in my family history I have multiple reasons to be biased.... and one VERY personal reason. Regardless, I suspect it is an overstatement, aggrandizing and not really helpful, either. Like this giant game of, "Who can think up the worst invective?" needs to end. It's not doing any good.

And if others don't want to say either way, that's ok. Again I think it's an ill-considered thing to publish. Yes I know the Times is liberal as all hell. I have stayed away from most news so I am not absolutely positive that this is an okay post for this forum - if it is a problem, please let me know. It's just what's hurting me right now, the thing that is currently making me feel like I'm gonna vomit (a physical PTSD symptom that I have sometimes).

Please forgive any typos or anything in this post. I did not do a good job editing it before posting, for which I apologize.

 

[joeylittle]

Was it okay to publish this?

Yes, because it's an opinion piece. There's nothing that says it's a fact, and no reason millions of people can't disagree if they do choose. Judging by the comments section, it was a provocative piece of writing - that's sort of what opinion pieces are for (in my opinion, and no pun intended).

This thread will be fine if it doesn't veer into grandstanding on the pros and cons of current political leaders in the US.

 

[EmmaOwl]

Yes, because it's an opinion piece.

A sensible opinion!

This thread will be fine if it doesn't veer into grandstanding on the pros and cons of current political leaders in the US.

Got it. Exactly. Thanks for helping to start it off in a good way. :)

 

[AngelKeeperJ]

Thank you, and I agree with your assessment! How absolutely ludicrous to compare the election results to events that caused loss of life!!!

 

[lostforgottensoul]

How absolutely ludicrous to compare the election results to events that caused loss of life!!!

Agreed! I haven't looked up the first date (I am not a history buff) but to compare really anything to Sept 11th is offensive! In my opinion. Especially a stupid election!

I didn't read the article. It sounds like I shouldnt anyway.

 

[EmmaOwl]

I didn't read the article. It sounds like I shouldnt anyway.

Yeah it's the kind of thing I try to skip, but it caught my eye.
Dec 7th, 1941 is the attack at Pearl Harbor; almost as many people lost their lives, as September 11th.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Pearl Harbor

Ah thats right. Duh! **head slap to myself lol**

Thanks!

 

[EmmaOwl]

Ah thats right. Duh! **head slap to myself lol**

Thanks!

It's ok. Shamefully (on the part of the public education system), I did not learn it in school. I learned it on my own, later rather than sooner. I think of it as my parents' generation, but really it was *their* parents' that lived through that day.

 

[Casey_03]

As someone in the journalism business, I can say that it's pretty standard to publish opinion pieces that take very strong stances (and stances that are often offensive to some people). That's the point of it, to generate discussion and get people debating. If these opinion pieces didn't use strong rhetoric and make bold arguments, no one would bother to read them.


(That said, i can understand why the comparison was offensive to you, and I'm not saying you're wrong)

 

[EmmaOwl]

As someone in the journalism business, I can say that it's pretty standard

Very true! During several years as a freelance writer, I did some newspaper work (and pretty much anyone who'd put me in print, paid or not) but there was one particular piece I was (and still am) particularly proud of,.... but I felt absolutely defeated when I opened the newspaper to find that my piece was re-titled overnight, given a misleading subheading, and I was utterly embarrassed. It didn't match, it wasn't right, it misled the tone of my piece, etc etc. But I was young. And that's what happens when you work with a newspaper - you lose a certain amount of control. If I'd stayed in it, no doubt I'd have jumped right into things, no-holds-barred. I'd've had to, to stay employed.

I guess, as the years go by, I'm thinking more about "responsible journalism" and what that means. I seem to be developing more conservative feelings, thinking about what kind of responsibilities might be taken on, to the public, - and yes this is still reflecting on my pet topic of Sept 11.

I find people all over the country who have developed PTSD or at least endured some amount of trauma due to what I now consider to be irresponsible journalism. In this case I'm talking about complete media immersion coverage. But it's taken me years to get to this point. At the time, the news reporting seemed obvious and no-question. It's the results of that, years later, that makes me question what I might not have thought about at the time.

And yeah I'm biased, to an unhelpful degree. and I always will be. I'm certainly not working for the newspapers these days. There are no correct answers. Thanks for writing, Casey! Definitely helped me clarify some of my most immediate feelings, when I first saw this piece.

 

[scout86]

The piece itself is alright. It's an opinion. (Much of which I share.) The title seems kind of over the top. At least right now it does. If Trump is that big a disaster, we won't know it for awhile. It's not the same, immediate, clear cut sort of "attack".

 

[Friday]

I think it's an interesting parallel.

• An outright attack between Territorial Nation States >>> The US involvement in WWII
• A Multinational Terrorist attack on a Territorial Nation State >>> US vs Iraq part 2 (UK vs Iraq part, what, 11? Not even touching on the rest of it)
• A Cyber attack of indeterminate origin* on a Territorial Nation >>> ???

We live in an increasingly complex world. The boundaries between Us & Them are no longer quite so clear cut as they were even a generation ago, and in fact are leaning back to several hundred years ago when individual entities & umbrella corps have as much -if not more- power than many -if not most- nations. Things haven't been this much in flux for a very long time.

Personally, I think the comparison is fairly shallow. It feels espionage-y to me, rather than the start of something. Shaping, not instigating. Same token, there are thousands of such attacks perpetuated daily. Few as well known outside the HXR & LE communities, & many far more successful. The publicizing of this one makes it a bit different, which is what makes it interesting IMO. Millions knowing to watch the concerted attacks of a zillion bee stings. My son and his friends were watching various trackers, cheering like a sporting match at various different times with info waaaaaaay above my ken. I think that may actually be the most "things are changing" aspect to this whole thing. Public awareness. What -if anything- that will mean in the long term? Shrug.

* State, Multinational, Espionage, Corporate, Hooliganism, some combo, etc.