• All donations and upgrades are manually verified and approved within 24hrs.
  • Upgrades are ongoing. Learn how to save your bookmarked posts.

News Events around the George Floyd protests and riots, US and beyond

Status
Not open for further replies.

Mee

MyPTSD Pro
^Yeah - we're all really complex little creatures. I agree with that but that's a long way from saying that decorated hero's are perps that just never got caught. People are not heroic every day either but sometimes they do something that calls for acknowledgement. They are certainly hero's to someone. Probably the person (s) lives they saved.

Still don't understand @Mee - a hero can be an ordinary guy who doesn't belong to any organisation or somebody very highly trained. Why would you want to undermine the really special honours that are given to those people?

Whose arguing that they don't? :cautious:

How can I even begin to understand your reasons if you don't know why you said it yourself?
Again that’s NOT what I am saying . In either paragraph .

Honours - general - I did not define Leo, military , or military decoration. Honours - in most general terms.

My words have been Mis interpreted - and this is why language and communication Without prejudice is important.

I do know my reasons . I don’t know the people I don’t know are flawed. The ones I might care to name are inflammatory.

Who is arguing that people don’t deserve human rights? When people say a record makes it justified to treat someone differently. When someone says perps aren’t human.

I think it’s all part of the us versus them problem.

@Ronin - I have been on receipt of accusation and word twisting . I too do not think that helps and I am not doing it. I am stating an .... ethos . A belief of an issue near the root of these problems in equality. The us and them . The good and bad - the they are heroes or saints- or they are abusers, subhuman monsters. I don’t buy into either. FWIW I cannot get patriotism either.

It might not help you and others understand the issues here but it is helping me.

I use the principal of ‘clean language ‘ a lot ( using my own metaphor And comparable experience to understand a situation) . You might not see it as addressing an issue from your perspective- I do not argue that. I am not saying you are wrong and this should help you.

I am about being better myself and understanding wider issues .

My ethos includes no heroes - you can have them all you like! I’m not arguing you shouldn't.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
This may be helpful in understanding more about where we are at in this country woth race relations:
it shows the prejudice starts young and even little black boys and girls are more likely to see black dolls as the bad and the white dolls as the good dolls.

This documentary may also help explain more about why Seattle is where it’s at - a situation brewing for years:
It’s a documentary by the local news media there about the camps in Seattle and the relationship between community and police. It’s been heated for quite some time.
 
The interaction between Floyd and Chauvin may have had to do with more than that one day.
^Maybe when a proper investigation is completed the truth will be known. Maybe even stuff like that ^^ We'll see if they are happy to stand in the rickety box and say the same thing.

The media headline about the officer whose charged with aiding and abetting is way out of line. That's not in my view a 'lengthy criminal record' :hilarious: :roflmao:

I'd love to see how someone can kill another with bare hands with their hands handcuffes behind their back.
^Easy peasy... & done in seconds. Lean back pop the legs through and do damage with the cuffs & chains. Been done heaps. And then there's kicking, charging and lots of other stuff. Is that enough though? Don't need hands to hurt.

If you have any videos of that, honestly, would love to see.
^Not willing to appreciate that life happens beyond a video?

Out of hundreds if not thousands of police calls I have seen in real life have I seen the police officer stay on the criminal after handcuffed.
^I'm sorry I find that so hard to believe. But you can if you want to. :)

^Have you read much of this thread? I think everyone is agreed that the police officer should have changed tactics once he had established control of @Floyd. But, again unless someone here wants to tell me they can read minds - i'll listen to what you think he was intending & thinking.
 
Honours - general - I did not define Leo, military , or military decoration. Honours - in most general terms.
^But this is a thread where the police have come under fairly sustained attack. Why put it here on this thread if it's not relevant to police? But anyway, I take your point - let's take ordinary Joe whose an everyday guy - who does something outstanding for someone... you know... like going into a burning home, car or flood water and saves a family. Do you really think he's a hero that has horrible secrets, criminal behaviour that he's hiding? I mean we're all multi-layered people. None are completely right or wrong, up or down blah blah... but saying hero's are villians. I still don't understand why you'd think that of some one whose risked their own lives, or done something extraordinarily humanitarian towards someone else?

I don’t know the people I don’t know are flawed. The ones I might care to name are inflammatory.
^Sorry you've lost me on that ^^ I don't understand. Can you explain a little better?

When people say a record makes it justified to treat someone differently . When someone says perps aren’t human.
^Again, whose doing that?
 
Immediately thinking of - head butts, swings at, throws & shoves of anything around, not even starting on bites if infecting someone with something shiny like HIV, I could go on.
Not to mention many a cop that has suffered a broken finger leading a detained person by the cuff chain instead of the wrist or arm.
Shit happens Fast.
 

Mee

MyPTSD Pro
^But this is a thread where the police have come under fairly sustained attack. Why put it here on this thread if it's not relevant to police? But anyway, I take your point - let's take ordinary Joe whose an everyday guy - who does something outstanding for someone... you know... like going into a burning home, car or flood water and saves a family. Do you really think he's a hero that has horrible secrets, criminal behaviour that he's hiding? I mean we're all multi-layered people. None are completely right or wrong, up or down blah blah... but saying hero's are villians. I still don't understand why you'd think that of some one whose risked their own lives, or done something extraordinarily humanitarian towards someone else?



^Sorry you've lost me on that ^^ I don't understand. Can you explain a little better?



^Again, whose doing that?
I’m why go wider than police? Because I feel the problem is deeper . I feel singling police out and saying THAT is where the problem is not the solution. It’s how the problem gets there and how we stop it in ourselves .

If it were a discussion about only police and you feel I’m inappropriate to look elsewhere why bring military to me? I am not criticising you - I am pointing out I feel you are treating me inequitably on your standard here .

ihave a long established history of refusing to single out phrases of other posters here. So no- I decline to follow your request to do that. I am a person doing my work- not anyone’s superior or therapist.
And yes- I am prepared to rephrase but right now I am taking a break from this line of conversation.
 
That you don't think of violence & can't even *imagine* the how's further proves the point
Can you please stop putting words in my mouth. I never said I couldn't imagine. I said I have never seen it happen and was intrested and open to seeing it!

Good god! I'm out of this entire thread because everything I post is twisted to some how I don't "get it". How the f*ck do you ever expect anyone "get it" like that?
 
There is this thing in our communities called history cancelling and it involves going through essentially our historical art, be it statues, movies, tv series, books, music paintings etc., anything really & removing it from the public view.
Interesting. One of the criticisms of color-blindness is erasure. Saying we are all the same erases cultures that are not the dominant culture.

On the other hand BLM stands for recognizing and promoting diversity. When erasure is noticed it is exposed.

For example, I learned that prior to 1990 the majority of books for children were biased toward white boys. I didn’t believe it but when I started going through the books in my classroom I saw it. That doesn’t mean to get rid of all the books published prior to 1990 and that doesn’t mean that books without bias toward white boys are automatically better. And my removing a significant amount of biased books doesn’t mean I am erasing the history of the dominant culture. I’m making room for more books which better represent the diversity of people and ideas.

That’s how I feel about taking down statues and monuments that no longer represent the diversity of people and ideas and making space for ones that do. Cultural values change and that’s helpful in my opinion.

I cannot get behind beatification -
You mentioned because all people are humans. I have another reason I also am wary of beatification. No person exists in a vacuum and yet there is a tendency to elevate one person over the team. In the scientific world there has been erasure of significant contributions by women and people of color because a white man was elevated as the discoverer or inventor, since he ran the lab or the company.

Some people say, “That’s just conventional to do it that way,” but that’s the excuse for erasure. When someone is held as a hero, it may be to further a specific narrative. That narrative may be helpful to some and not to others. Or helpful to many.

I think people are painting Floyd’s portrait because it furthers a narrative helpful for some people. It’s not Floyd’s life that made him a hero, not his accomplishments. In many ways it’s not even him. His face is now a symbol for when people said, ‘No, enough!’ to the culture of domination. Like how Che Guevara’s face became a symbol of heroism, even though the man himself was very much human and violent.
 
I don't think the labels do it justice...

Even in pro- and inspired by Guevara movements? He himself and his ideas and his influences are treated with faar more complexity than a 'hero'.

And Guevara was an actual revolutionaire.
Not someone elevated to status of one by followers, who had done no part to earn that as a label.

So that comparison doesn't fit well, much.

As to representation - those movies like Gone With The Wind *do* accurately represent historical racial attitudes.

It's race denying and insult and racist to restrict access to them and / or try to coerce viewers to watch other ones - preselected by the availability of choices.

Can we ban Mickey Mouse and most of early cartoons too?
I mean they are / were provably antiBlack racist???

---
As in FFS. The same reasons I'm very opposed to this crap as libraries not having a copy of Mein Kampf.

Not because I'd fan gnatsies.
But because history is important.
Also crucially so FOR the health of democratic societies.
 
@TruthSeeker, thank you. You have helped me get to something. I have never understood this racial concept. I could never connect with what the big deal about race division was. I believe I understand why I am set apart as well with this. Adoption really changes things. Thank you again for bringing this up.

@shimmerz I know I got really angry with this whole thread......and I had to take a break to figure out some things....... my knowledge about my skin color....is what I see.....not what I know about my race combined with family history. I don't feel connected to a race...or heritage. I guess I kinda "borrowed my family's history which has a rich history" in conversation when I'm asked about heritage.........but ......it's just to try to fit in-family history is important and does matter.....to those who have one. Really, really glad you responded....twas validating.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom