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News Events around the George Floyd protests and riots, US and beyond

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You are aware automatically turning that discussion away with *still* inserting even asking about it is racist / victim blaming him / siding with killers isn't very helpful?

It comes from the assumption people *must* suppose Black people are criminals.

Where nope. Thinking of it as 'Black people aren't... so let's see about the exception that happened here' can pretty easily be seen as *more* inclusive. Not less.
 
Coming at this thread a bit late... So my apologies if this has already been thrashed out in later pages.
If the consequences of "Get off him, boss" are so grievous that it's worth letting a civilian die?
There are 2.5 consequences.

1. Suspect uses the distraction to break free & kill people

2. Rookie is sacked & banned from ever working any kind of job requiring a background check or security clearance, because he/she has just risked the lives of every civilian within about half a mile, as well as their training officer, any other officers who have to be called in on the manhunt, and all the victims who couldn’t get police response, because the officers that would have been assigned to their emergency are busy chasing the guy you let get away and hurt people.

Half. Quick nod, shake, and quick blinking of officer snapping out of fight /flight and back into adrenaline up but not in charge.

The half? Is because that almost never happens / happens all the time.

People with PTSD tend to understand adrenaline. There are lost moments/minutes/hours & events/actions/thoughts/feelings with trauma. Whether you have PTSD or not. TRAINING helps minimize that, repetition teaches as much control as possible, helping you be able to direct your actions no matter how much adrenaline is in your system. It’s still a bit iffy at best. Infinitely better than someone with no training, but still a very difficult thing. Imagine your worst flashback. Every single second of it. Now imagine someone outside of that assaults you in the middle of it. That’s the “half” when someone “interrupts” fight/flight mode. It’s... jarring... to say the least. Even more so, when it’s not a flashback, but actually happening. You get used to it, working in trauma, but it’s still a violent gear shift with touch&go results. Often the person locks themselves down immediately, and gets back to the task at hand. Often the person assaults you &/or tries to kill you for half a second. The second one? May sound worse, but IME it’s better. As it blows off the steam on a target prepared for it, and who can take it, and allows a smooth transition back to the task at hand... rather that SHOVING the fight/flight response down, to have it leak or explode out sideways within the next few hours/days/weeks.

^^^ The reason this almost never happens wih ROOKIES? Judgement call. You’ll find some combat vets & paramedics who’ve switched over to LEO rein in a training officer, from time to time, because the judgment is there... but the discipline is also there, so even when they want to, they usually don’t. Very much like the difference between a service dog in training (Rookie) & a fully trained service dog, being trained to new task (Vet/Paramedic to LEO). The fully trained service dog is going to ignore 90% of what spins the SD-IT up. The 10% of the time it does react? It won’t be right all of the time. Or even most of the time. Because it’s learning, too.

^^^There’s a reason why there are rookies, service dogs in training, junior level (ADAs, Barristers), Residents (fully educated/licensed doctors, who still have to be supervised by senior physicians), etc. It’s not go to the police academy/ law school/ medschool and graduate perfectly competent and capable in your chosen career. Junior level people DEPEND on senior level people to keep them from killing others. The responsibility for the life of their client, patient, suspect? Is in the senior’s hands. For very good reason. Trying to hold a junior to the same standard as their superior, is just blind to the seriousness of the job. If the senior f*cks up? Holding the junior accountable for their teacher’s actions is bass ackwards.
 
Because you're not a police officer, @Mee. You get a call to go to a domestic violence situation. Do you want to know who is involved? (It obviously involves an abusive angry person. Danger!!) Any gang affiliation? Guns in the home? Prior arrests? History of violence? Come on. You're fooling yourself.

I don't look fondly on career criminals. Black. White. Asian. Hispanic. They all suck!

Someone earlier said these cities weren't war zones. (Look at Seattle as we speak). I'm a Detroit girl. Born and raised. So I only know what the crime is like here. Google it and tell me it isn't a war zone. My bff at work lives in the city. She has been married 15 years. 5 beautiful children. Her husband has been a gang member since he was 8. He's 40 now. Her children know to run downstairs if they hear gunshots. They are 8 through 14 years old. My guess is the whole family has ptsd. They all have the criteria for it.

My niece and 2 of her friends created a non-profit for young inner-city girls. They are smart, loving, caring mentors. Doing great work! All of their seniors have applied to college. Do you want to know what the girls want the most? Self defense training. They get abducted and raped in abandoned homes on the way to school. (Arrested a serial rapist last year). Tell me again this isn't a war zone.

Let's face it they (Floyd and Chauvin) were both horrible people. It doesn't matter what color they are. Floyd was bound to either end up in jail (yet again) or die on the streets. It is the life of a. career criminal. He terrorized his community for years.

I'm all for the cause but it is now drowned out by the violence. A career criminal is not the person to martyr.

Research the numbers.
White on white murders.
White on black.
Black on white.
Black on black. ( the highest in the nation, just look at Chicago)

I hate all abusers. It doesn't matter what skin tone they have.

 
Thread starter #268
Let's face it they (Floyd and Chauvin) were both horrible people. It doesn't matter what color they are. Floyd was bound to either end up in jail (yet again) or die on the streets. It is the life of a. career criminal. He terrorized his community for years.
All the common experience in the world, though, doesn't guarantee that the only outcomes for Floyd's life were going to be negative, or wasted. Sure, could have been in and out of jail for the next 20 years...or could have had a turn-around and become an important part of his community.

We don't know, because he's dead. And his death, in that place at that time in that manner - was not warranted.

I'm all for the cause but it is now drowned out by the violence. A career criminal is not the person to martyr.
Sure...but the violence that is drowning everything out would have (likely) been entirely (?) avoided if sometime in those 9 minutes, Chauvin (or any of his fellow officers) would have considered that Floyd was subdued enough to be put into the car.
 
I think the previous offences issue is a red herring. The question is if we believe in human rights or not. ‘Even’ criminals have human rights And even during the time they serve their sentence. Once a that’s completed they might just as easily get a duff bank note as you or I . Even were he printing them in his kitchen he has human rights.
I disagree. History is not relevant to what happened to him in this incident as a victim.
I want to be SUPER clear about something. I in NO way am saying (and I don't think anyone else is here, either) that, because he has a criminal history it's ok what happened to him.

What I'm saying is that many, many people have been talking about him like he was a saint (prior to him being arrested and murdered) and, in fact, he was not. Part of the problem with...well, with everything it seems, these days...is that only one side of the story - the popular one - is put out there and everything else is dumped in the toilet.

NOTHING is absolute. There is always more than one side to the story. I think this is why history - generally - is important. Not, in this case, that it is relevant to Floyd being murdered, but that in elevating his status, we should be at least aware he was not perfect.
 
There is this thing in our communities called history cancelling and it involves going through essentially our historical art, be it statues, movies, tv series, books, music paintings etc., anything really & removing it from the public view.

So 'Gone With The Wind' has been removed from some platforms so it's not as accessible as it once was. This is on account of it depicting slavery & not highlighting the depraved nature of that practice. Note - it's not banned and if you still want to see that particular movie & I presume all of the other art that's being removed if you want to, you can still get it. But idk how.

It's some really big corporations making contribution to the BLM cause without spending any or much money. They want to be seen to be supporting it.

Other forms of art & culture like statues of historical figures are being toppled & removed from sight and even defaced or destroyed completely.

Comedians are now being vilified for various characters they've constructed that depict people of colour in their acts.. Their routines have been withdrawn from platforms too.

There have been various waves of this history cancelling stuff going on for a decade or so but now apparently, it's really important again.

I don't understand tbh. I think it's necessary to be honest and face up to our human depravity & understand what it meant then & where we are at now.

I know people will argue that it's offensive to some people so it should be removed from sight.

Idk...but it's history. We cannot truly erase it so what does removing it from sight do? Deprive generations to come from seeing our journey?

Better that we learn from it, understand that that was then & this is now. Cherry picking our way through history is not informative or reliable.
 
They want to remove Gone with the wind from history for being racist?

Hattie McDaniel was the first African American to be awarded an Oscar for her role in that film. This was before the civil rights movement and before affirmative action. You therefore know that she absolutely 100% earned that award.

I guess it's fine to erase her accomplishment if it means they can "stick it to whitey".
Disgusting. Utterly disgusting.

I also find it ironic that nobody has mentioned David Dorn in this thread. I guess an elderly black cop shot dead trying to protect his community doesn't make the "peaceful protesters" look so good. Or the police look so bad.

I suppose if he wanted a funeral to rival that of a US president, he should have picked up a crack pipe instead of a badge huh?

George Floyd did not deserve to die no matter how long his rap sheet was. Nor have I seen anyone that says otherwise, even from law enforcement communities. But trying to martyr him as noble figurehead of racial injustice is just disingenuous.
Ok? George Floyd did not deserve to die. Literally no one is saying that, on or off this forum.
The man did make some bad choices in his life and it's very sad that he won't be able to turn his life around, because of the horrible actions of men who were tasked with protecting all of us. They have failed not just black people, but everyone. Their actions and inactions have resulted in many more tragic deaths across their whole country, possibly even beyond that.

I don't know if I'm going to stick around here or not, I've read some things on this thread that have absolutely mortified me. As well as a few things that have given me enough hope to try again. But this isn't about me.

What a complete shit show this whole thing has become. It's all just so sad to see how little it takes to tear people apart over something so shallow as skin colour.
I was not a racist before this started and I refuse to allow this to turn me into one now.
We are all human beings, deserving of love and respect. No matter what we look like.
 

Mee

MyPTSD Pro
You are aware automatically turning that discussion away with *still* inserting even asking about it is racist / victim blaming him / siding with killers isn't very helpful?

It comes from the assumption people *must* suppose Black people are criminals.

Where nope. Thinking of it as 'Black people aren't... so let's see about the exception that happened here' can pretty easily be seen as *more* inclusive. Not less.
No. That’s not my motivation here. My motive here is the crime and it’s execution and what happened then.

I’m not talking about exceptions - I have pain fact refereed to the fact that people are some times forced into choices .


I am also NOT making a martyr of the victim. I fact - that’s rather my point - human rights are universal and don’t depend on whether someone is a sinner or a saint. Or - what all of us are - complex individuals.

I am WELL aware of the difficulties here - and I have some problematic behaviour . It’s my position we all do. I own up when I am wrong - and it’s probable I’m communicating unclearly - but I will not cop to what I have not done.
 
Thread starter #275
Is anyone actually trying to "martyr" George Floyd?

There's a fair amount of anger going on in this thread around that idea...can someone point me to where that's at?
 
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