Has A Supporter Ever Regained Your Trust Once You'd Decided It Was Gone?

[Tinyflame]

@Al_Lurker , I have been thinking about your question carefully, and as to what is trust, and I think it may be a bit more complicated than I first thought. (At least it is for me, though that's not indicative of anyone else of course).

To me, trust has to be differentiated from 'being human', and making mistakes. That is, we all are human, we all make mistakes and fall short of the mark or miss it entirely. But that being said, that doesn't make or mean all 'humans' are trustworthy, or trustworthy in the same ways.

Similarly, people can be trusted with different things. For example, I may be able to trust that someone will truthfully tell me what they think of me. Another may tell me what they truthfully believe/ like/dislike, etc, as regards themself. Another person may be trustworthy to be reliable, another one to not be hurtful, another one I may trust they are competent or skilled, and so on. I believe it serves to provide a sense of 'predicatability', one knows (or at least has an idea of) what to expect. Most people prefer predictability, even if one can 'predict' the worst. (They are still not caught entirely unawares).

But even those 'trusts' can change; reliable 'if' things are going well, 'if' .. (etc, etc). And again, rightly or wrongly, it may end up being considered part of the person's character. For example, could your girlfriend be polarizing, or responding to a trigger, or did she feel your anger was something she did not know could be that strong and therefore she 'trusts' (predicts) it will surface again? Or that simply, you are a person when angry says things that hurt her? (Not that you are, just a possibilty she equates the two).

I think of a car alternator. If some days my car doesn't start, I will always wonder if this will be the day it won't. If my car rarely starts in the rain, I will not be as surprised that it won't (it's more predicatble), but I will lose trust in it. Eventually I will think the alternator causes grief, even if on 'good' days when all is going well the car starts.

Ultimately though, as humans I think if we make things or people a priority, or if they are even remotely important, we become trustworthy. But if not, it's not worth it. Because as humans we often take pains to do things, like record a tv show or buy clothes or whatever. If one does not follow through, it really says a lot. I know when I do not, it's become of less importance to me, or not at all, and my actions reflect it.

 

[Al_Lurker]

.....But even those 'trusts' can change; reliable 'if' things are going well, 'if' .. (etc, etc). And again, rightly or wrongly, it may end up being considered part of the person's character. For example, could your girlfriend be polarizing, or responding to a trigger, or did she feel your anger was something she did not know could be that strong and therefore she 'trusts' (predicts) it will surface again? Or that simply, you are a person when angry says things that hurt her? (Not that you are, just a possibilty she equates the two)....

@Junebug I'm pretty sure her response is polarizing in response to a trigger. I have never denied that, what I wish to understand is how she or any other sufferer can 'predict' how someone will act the same in future based on a single or small series of acts in the face of much evidence to the contrary. In short, can a decision made while polarizing look different later? If that person was once trusted with the things you've mentioned, and that trust was unconditional because previous actions indicated it should be how can a single thing 'flip the switch' and you be so sure that future behavior is known? You are correct in saying that we are all human and all make mistakes that we regret later. @keifer started the thread with an example of just that, but it seems that PTSD causes a sufferer to be able to forget that detail and to lose the 'gray' in their thinking very quickly, if they have ever had it at all. The very fact that you pick out certain things to trust about individuals and evaluate them as a whole 'relationship' would seem to indicate you don't suffer from that loss or have recovered from it (as do some of the other responses). You don't polarize, you evaluate based on the body of interaction you've had with a person and come to a conclusion that directs your future interaction with them and that conclusion is always dynamic. That is the way that I, as a non sufferer, would 'trust' someone. @Jane.l says that polarization is necessary to function, and that is what allows her to survive and be who she is, the others of us do the same with different methods whether sufferers or supporters.

I guess what I am really trying to do is to decide whether to trust that she would wish a relationship with me if she was in treatment or not... and I would like to be much better prepared should she decide that she does. I also want to be there if my DiL and granddaughter ever need support for the trauma that they've suffered.

 

[Tinyflame]

I'm not sure @Al_Lurker , I think the 'efficacy' of treatment is the key, rather than 'treatment' always being as successful as everyone would hope.

I'm not sure how to explain it, but you are (rightfully so) describing a 'normal' mind; I can only say, recall of 'memories' (for just myself) is fractured and incomplete. Not just about the trauma, but as I live. I sometimes wonder if adrenaline interferes? I really don't know. The memories are there, but not accessible on cue. I can't recall that they are there, either, unless something comes to mind, remind me or whatever. I don't really know 'why' or 'how' (other) memories come to mind, a reminder perhaps.

I can't speak for Jane, but polarizing *could* be a way to 'remember' what category people fit in to (trustworthy or not).

Does that make any sense whatsoever? :(

 

[keifer]

We each walk our own path, though we don't have to walk alone. Sometimes we are alone and other times we are not.

A relationship takes two people. Honestly before PTSD, I don't know if I could ever be a supporter and have any success at it.

Both people have to be committed for any relationship to work. Giving up is the easy part. Working it out will be very hard. Which way is better for you?

No one but you can make that choice.

 

[Al_Lurker]

I'm not sure @Al_Lurker , I think the 'efficacy' of treatment is the key, rather than 'treatment' always being as successful as everyone would hope.

Does that make any sense whatsoever? :(

Yes it does. You always do. ;)

 

[Tinyflame]

Oh, dear @Al_Lurker , only to you! :) :hug:

Meant to say, 'one' incident is not a ('true') predictor of the future. But fear makes me think so. Perhaps from so much that has been 'overlooked' (past abuse), perhaps just fear, perhaps not being able to know 'what' (bad) it forecasts? :(

Perhaps (particularly) not being able to get out of or away from 'bad' past things? :(

 

[Al_Lurker]

....A relationship takes two people. ..

No one but you can make that choice.

She has made the choice, and is unwilling to do the work to try. I can only hope that she changes her mind as some of you have. Your responses tell me it can be done, and at the same time will make me a better supporter should I ever need to be. I thank all of you for that. In the meantime I walk life's path alone, possibly until it's end.

 

[Al_Lurker]

...perhaps just fear, perhaps not being able to know 'what' (bad) it forecasts? :(

Perhaps (particularly) not being able to get out of or away from 'bad' past things? :(

You have helped me to understand this and I believe the fear of her memories, and the inability to predict what a change such as we planned would become, is exactly what stands between us. That understanding of what she cannot bear to tell me has helped me to heal. Sometimes dreams don't come true, not because they cannot, but because we fear to chase them.

 

[Tinyflame]

Aw @Al_Lurker , I hope something will work out for you two. It seems such a loss when you both had come that far and made your plans. :(

"..The understanding of what she cannot bear to tell me" is HUGE.

Just running to work, :hug: .

 

[Tinyflame]

Even 'small things' come with a lack of understanding and fear. Any event (not just your marriage plans). Small interactions, small triggers, a look, a sentence. :(

 

[Justmehere]

When I am triggered, it can feel life and death - that I need to protect myself in a life and death way. The amygdala kicks in and the excutive functioning (more logic based) part of my brain shuts down. When I'm in that mindset, lots of data that the person who triggered me has been really safe in the past - it doesn't mean much. Not in that moment.

Like if I was hurt by a guy in a black shirt, and I know that black shirts and the people who wear them are not all dangerous... If something happens however slight, I may fear and push away someone in a black shirt like my life depends on it.

The helping professional who dropped the ball, it was kind of like that. I knew it was not good, I knew she wasn't hitting me like past people have, but I was so triggered I could not make rational decisions based on evidence... Not at first. I had to come back out of that activated state and I had to keep trying - and that was a commitment in my part to make. I made the choice to see if things would change or not.

Now, that one time she dropped the ball - i don't trust she will never do it again. But I do trust she is for me. she's not dangerous.

PTSD is not fair. It makes me fear people so easily despite lots of data to the contrary.

Treatment and the decision to risk in small ways with people that have triggered me to see if my fear is accurate or not - combined with lots of patience and humility and validation from the other person - that's what makes trusting again possible for me.

You can only do what you can do, the rest it up to her. She has to look at the evidence and make the decision to try to risk again and let people be human.

So sorry you are both going through this.

 

[Justmehere]

Ps don't give up hope that you will find someone for you. Hugs if you accept them.