How to be a good friend to someone being emotionally bullied?

[Justmehere]

I’m a supporter of someone who has PTSD. I also have PTSD myself. This friend is going through a divorce. Their former partner announced they wanted a divorce or else they would engage in an addiction until they died. They demanded my friend move out. Several kids are involved. They are less than a year out, no divorce papers filed. The dynamic is the ex making demands (more $, show up to events on time, for only the ex-partner to date and not my friend to date, etc)… and then when my friend inevitably fails impossible demands, the ex-partner threatens to try to limit or take away access to kids of the demands are not met, and my friend gives in to “keep the peace.” It’s not a new dynamic, it’s just super charged now post separation. My friend goes on trips with ex-partner and has plans for future trips with the ex-partner and kids all together on a fairly regular basis. They are both dating others too.

I’m trying to listen, just be a neutral sounding board, and a good friend… but it’s hard. There is no physical or sexual abuse that I know about… but it’s hard to see the constant emotional bullying. What does being a supportive friend look like?

 

[Friday]

but it’s hard to see the constant emotional bullying. What does being a supportive friend look like?

Be you.

That’s what they’re counting on when they come to you. Your voice. Your judgement. Your perspective.

(Unless you aren’t “real” to them, and are just a warm body filling a role. But let’s start off from the idea that you’re an actual friend, who is different from all their other friends, who are all different from each other. All of whom have different perspectives, limits, voices. So when they’re coming to YOU? They want you. Being you. Doing you, the way that you do. Or they would go to someone else for their unique thoughts/actions/experience.).

***

Personally, I can understand preferring to be bullied by my ex, than bullied by my ex AND the courts (whose threats are worse). That’s why I waited soooooo long to get divorced, and then exactly what I feared would happen? Did happen. But 3 attempts on my life within a year, the last both nearly succeeding AND involving my then 9yo? Forced my hand. Because sooner or later? I wasn’t going to survive, and then my kid would be stuck with my abusive ex full time. And since TheKiddo was involved in the last go-round? What lessons he took from that, were entirely on me.

Your friend may be waaaaaaay better off being divorced; custody, alimony/palimony, assets, etc. all on paper. Or? May be waaaaaaay better of doing things “by agreement” (which is what the courts call it, when they’re not hearing/ruling, IE what she & semi-ex are doing now). No real way for me to even begin to guess. For my own self, the 6 years I wanted a divorce, but stayed? Were a zillion times better than the 9 years that followed.

So my experience says there’s no “right” way. It’s the fallout one chooses, and then has to live with. Rarely all good or all bad.

 

[arfie]

to me, a good friend looks like somebody with a cup of libation and an open, non-judgemental ear to offer.

just be there for her. i figure it is not my job to understand my friends. my job is to love them until they understand themselves.

 

[Justmehere]

@Friday - Yeah, that makes a lot of sense as to why appeasement and trying to work it out is sometimes the better path than seeking full freedom from it. If no kids were involved, I’d be pushing they get the eff out and run… but there are kids involved… so it’s not a factor of just getting the hell out.

I keep wanting to say, “OMG, your ex is an asshat”… but it doesn’t seem all that helpful for me to say. So instead I just keep cheering them on in saying what they need, their boundaries, and tell them I’m here for them and the situation sucks.

 

[Charbella]

@Friday - Yeah, that makes a lot of sense as to why appeasement and trying to work it out is sometimes the better path than seeking full freedom from it. If no kids were involved, I’d be pushing they get the eff out and run… but there are kids involved… so it’s not a factor of just getting the hell out.

I keep wanting to say, “OMG, your ex is an asshat”… but it doesn’t seem all that helpful for me to say. So instead I just keep cheering them on in saying what they need, their boundaries, and tell them I’m here for them and the situation sucks.

Why not ask what she wants/needs and tell her how you feel in that moment?

I’d be afraid that my appeasement would be misconstrued as “you should work things out” rather than “I support your decision”. I’d hate for my friend to think that I felt their asshat ex was worth rekindling with over the kids or that it was okay he treat them that way because you agree she should______. Whatever it is he thinks.

We counsel kids not to be a bystander to a bully because it tells the bullied that we agree with the bully.

 

[scout86]

I keep wanting to say, “OMG, your ex is an asshat”… but it doesn’t seem all that helpful

I'm a person who's inclined to say things like that. I've been told more than once that the person I was saying it to "needed to hear it". I would hope your friend gets that they are married to an asshat. Doesn't hurt to affirm that at all. When you're in the middle of the situation it's easy to second guess yourself.

The person Friday was married to has always sounded like a pretty extreme specimen to me. (And we all say "thank you!" for that!) Partners exist on a spectrum, like most things. Some of them are truly dangerous, some are just a nuisance. And anything in between.

On the idea of staying together for the kids........ My step-kids have told me that they thought their parents should have divorced sooner than they did. They didn't see an advantage to having to watch their parents fight and mistreat each other. One of them specifically mentioned that it didn't help form an idea of what relationships were supposed to be like. Personally, I kind of like the idea that a parent model how people should both treat others and how to be treated by others. So, if this is about staying together for the kids, your friend might want to think about what the kids are really getting out of the situation. Depending on how old the kids are they could even have an actual conversation.

We counsel kids not to be a bystander to a bully because it tells the bullied that we agree with the bully.

Good point!

Has your friend talked to a lawyer?

 

[Friday]

I keep wanting to say, “OMG, your ex is an asshat”… but it doesn’t seem all that helpful for me to say

You might be surprised!

 

[Justmehere]

The couple of times I’ve said things like… “that’s really not okay” or “that’s a low blow by your ex”… it went over okay… until I asked, “what’s holding you back from saying no?” I wasn’t trying to push but understand and think I hit a sore spot. They started getting defensive their ex wasn’t playing games with access to the kids. They are playing games with access, but I didn’t push it. I just said I didn’t know what I would do in the situation but told my friend what I want for them. Like I wanted them to feel okay to say no, to be less overwhelmed, to have the support they need, etc.

My friend did talk to a lawyer, is getting therapy, etc. The one thing I do push is getting professional advice “to protect your interest and that of the kids.”

My friend went to get advice from someone on a specific issue… and the ex somehow figured out who, and objected. They threatened to take away time with the kids for “going against me.” I guess they agreed pre-separation to not use this person… and I said “uh I thought they wanted a divorce which is to seek for you making your own decisions and then no longer having a say.”

It’s chronic gaslighting and emotional bullying. The ex didn’t used to be this bad… or I didn’t know about it if they were…

The drinking is super confusing. Sometimes my friend admits they have a problem, sometimes they deny it.

My heart just breaks.

 

[scout86]

Situations like that are a hard part of friendship, for sure.

Who's drinking? Your friend or the spouse?

Does your friend think the spouse is a good parent who's doing a good job of raising the kids? That the kids are really better off full time bring being parented by the spouse? (Whether it's true or not.) If they don't think that the spouse is doing a good parenting job..... Sometimes a person will take action to save their kids that they won't take to save themselves. So you might try focusing your efforts on getting them to think of the welfare of the kids.

Whether we like it or not though (and usually we don't, I guess) a competent adult has a right to make their own mistakes, even if it's hard to watch. (Doesn't hurt to tell them it's hard to watch!)

 

[Dynamic]

I can relate its very difficult to watch anyone be bullied. I am a big sister to many in different ways and also been called the mom of the group. in many friend groups.

I agree with the advice given. I realized why I am important to someone like this in my life and its because in their world they cant trust ANYONE

but I am always me. thats one thing ppl say I am genuine so ...keep being you. keep being honest. and I like to remind myself to stay calm. to me an emotionally abusive relationship is something to run from but as Ive heard from my friends perspective, its sometimes tricky to RUN and gotta do more of a sneak out.

 

[Justmehere]

Who's drinking? Your friend or the spouse?

Does your friend think the spouse is a good parent who's doing a good job of raising the kids? That the kids are really better off full time bring being parented by the spouse?

The ex-spouse is the heavy drinker. The friend… said they had enough to fight for full custody if needed. They won’t as much about why. But that seems notable. Whatever was the concern, neither the kids or my friend talk about it. It’s their story to tell. I’ve seen some behaviors that are not abuse but seem intense.

I do see the constant attempts to control my friend in super push-pull ways. The spouse sees like they have a personality disorder. Boundaries are a mess.

I wish my friend would spend more time away from the spouse. Get some exposure to less life with them or dealing with them. They keep seeking more time together with my friend appeasing a the other demanding. When they frid broke up the spouse told me they worked on he relationship by telling my friend what to do.

Sigh.

 

[Friday]

The friend… said they had enough to fight for full custody if needed. They won’t as much about why

Do they have 20-200k? That’s the average cost of a successful custody battle… 20k up front as a retainer, 200k by time of ruling. (I needed a 200-500k retainer, depending on which lawyers I wanted from the firm, as my battle was expected to be in excess of 2 million all the way on up to 10. My ex was wealthy. I wasn’t. So I had to roll the dice, total cost ”only” 80k “just” in meeting basic evidence/psych/etc. as ordered by the state, not even entering into court battle-territory. I’d have lost custody entirely, if I hadn’t been able to borrow the money to meet “my side”. Even though ALL the evidence “proved” my side. Quotes, because no expert witnesses & 2 million. Just his word vs X-rays & film & witnesses.).

Most people? Can’t afford a custody battle. It’s roll the dice with the courts, or do things “by agreement” outside of the courts. So they do whatever they can hammer out with their ex. Because they don’t have a spare zillion in the bank. Because evidence? Only matters if the other side agrees/admits. If they don’t? That’s expert witnesses, on both sides, and soooooo much more. So? It’s just not what average people are capable of going to court with. It’s only what they’re capable of “saying” even with X-rays and film, and only 2 years & a few hundred grand later? Proving. Which ANYONE who has spoke with a divorce attorney knows. Custody battles are only for the rich. No one else can afford them.