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Memory is a tricky fount. On our own, we remember things, mis-remember things, assume things, forget things, and all the time, we are strengthening and weakening connections in our brain, changing things, but for the most part, I think we are fundamentally ourselves, even if we can't recall our first taste of marmite, we swear our teacher was wearing a red sweater one day and it turns out she wasn't wearing a sweater at all, or we suddenly recall our first kiss 30 years after it happened.

A famous case that comes to mind is Clive Wearing, who lost the ability to form any new short term memories, but can conduct music from pieces he knew before, and knows and loves his wife very much. Supposedly, his personality is unchanged save for the fact he can't recall events for more than half a minute.
 
Because as you produce it, I will counter it with empirically valid evidence by leading trauma and PTSD global experts.

Like what?.... Cause I am looking on this site, but I'm really not finding anything clearly highlighted beyond "All these really experimental procedures that like 6 people have completed in their entirety," and "Some drug available in Mexico that people view is cheating anyway" and "SSRIs are bad for you." ...Is there actually a form of long-term, chronic treatment more effective than exposure therapy to desensitize the traumatic impact of memories?

Because when I make that statement, I am looking at total, long-term therapy - (In fact, the kind of therapy you actually offered people on this site to work with you under in six months, which included detailing their trauma in detail, going over the emotional components of said trauma and focusing on the core issues of that trauma - all which fall under exposure therapy -- no, you know what, I absolutely am not understanding you AT ALL here.)

Because one of my good friends on here is "working with you" right now in dealing with all this shit, so I'd really like to know if you're just bullshitting everybody here or if you're pulling magic cures out of your hat or what. Exposure therapy (by which I mean, more precisely - thanks for ~clarifying~ and asking by the way, specific-trauma-memory-dealing-with therapy, if you want to get specific...) is basically the only defined treatment on this site alone.

I mean really, cause if there's a cure, we'd really like to know. Let's get out those studies, 'cause honestly - I think everybody here's pretty tired of going over the same shit in their heads again and again. Who needs therapy and practical desensitization when there are these new, other,.... things...! ... Like.... ........

There's SGB, but it's not permanent. Which I know you know, considering I've read posts you've wrote which say the same thing. There are hallucinogenic or psychotropic (or benzos or whatever) drugs, but most people either view people who take drugs to be either: Drug addicts (LSD, E, benzos, DXM, K, etc), or it to be some form of cheating.

(I haven't presented an opinion on this yet but in my opinion, using empathogenic drugs in therapy is actually not an unviable solution, it's just a solution most people don't consider - and it's also a solution I outlined in my statement.)

I knew when I stated that people would jump to reference retraumatization via exposure therapy w/o reading what I said in its completion. I also find it a little weird that the owner of the site, who explains exposure therapy as one of the most effective treatments for PTSD, is arguing this point with me. I'm not finding ANY. OTHER. long term viable solutions that either aren't "something my friend did" or in an experimental stage being tested on rats.

And if you want proof, just go to your damn Wiki: [DLMURL]https://www.ptsdforum.org/c/wiki/therapy/[/DLMURL]

Of all of those therapies, you have EMDR which is basically the exact same thing - detraumatizing the brain via exposure, discussion, analyzation, using bilateral movements (Obviously moving your eyes around all by themselves does jack shit), CBT - which also is essentially the same thing as exposure therapy, only it applies to behaviors as a result of trauma rather than trauma itself, then you have stress management, which is basically just THE SAME THING - EXCEPT - instead of it being solely about the memory, it's about the mechanism of Stress, PTSD, Education and its impact on your neurology.

So basically, I would just like to conclude, with: um, what the f*ck?
 
(Also, if I am nitpicked by "Basically the exact same thing" - when I fully understand what each of those therapies entail and obviously understand they're not the same thing, but am using that as a framework to suggest that FORGETTING & REPRESSION ARE ANTITHETICAL to TRAUMA MANAGEMENT -- I'm going to f*cking explode my brains all over this thread.)

Kay. Later. :)
 
Sea, I think you need to go learn about therapies and exactly what they are. I am only working with one person on this site, who is a moderator, and what is being used right now is not exposure therapy, it is fluctuating between stress inoculation therapy, cognitive trauma therapy and a very small component of exposure therapy, mostly of which the person already implemented themselves before I started helping.

I have never stated, anywhere, that exposure therapy is the only viable treatment for PTSD. This site is a form of exposure therapy, however; you can tell your story over and over again, having zero impact on desensitising traumatic memories. You are attempting to put words in my mouth to be perfectly honest, of which are not coming out of my mouth.

I think you need to calm down, do your own research on therapy types and first understand what each type of therapy achieves, not just brand every type of therapy as "exposure" with what seems to be a broad brush, then attacking me of bullshitting people or any other such nonsense.

What I have stated here, and still state, is that a combination of therapies deliver the correct balance for long-term effect. EMDR by itself is not sufficient for longevity of PTSD, it must be combined with stress inoculation, relaxation and have further cognitive trauma therapy involved in order to deal with emotional reasoning, which EMDR does not do, nor exposure therapy.

I intentionally wrote a post about therapy types to remove confusion, breaking them down into what is classified as CBT therapies, yet a combination of them must be used to actually cite CBT is being used, comprising a cognitive therapy, a behavioural therapy and a stress inoculation therapy. That specific package makes up CBT.

The four approved, empirically validated Tier 1 therapies for the effective treatment of PTSD comprise:
  1. Cognitive Trauma Therapy
  2. Prolonged Exposure Therapy
  3. Stress Inoculation Therapy
  4. EMDR
Not one of the above by itself, will effectively treat PTSD for longevity. You must use a combination of all, or varying types that can transpose similar effect in lieu.

Still, you cited no evidence to substantiate your claim, only accusations.
 
Not one of the above by itself, will effectively treat PTSD for longevity.
Which is irrelevant to my whole point. I know you think that what I said meant what you thought I meant, but it didn't. I'm past/beyond/completely obliterated the point where I can explain this effectively, only that about 90% of every issue anybody has with me is semantic (& honestly pointless, bc really, I've stated my point concisely like a BILLION F*CKING TIMES but, whatever) because I am f*cking retarded, whatever, I can take responsibility for it.

Regardless, still not my point. If anybody even cares, I will try and explain.

The four approved, empirically validated Tier 1 therapies for the effective treatment of PTSD comprise:
That is my point. The four approved EMPIRICALLY VALIDATED TIER ONE THERAPIES FOR THE EFFECTIVE TREATMENT OF PTSD COMPRISE (INSERT ALL SORTS OF THERAPIES THAT FOCUS ON THE TRAUMA MEMORIES & DESENSITIZATION & NOT ON FORGETTING & REPRESSION).

Still, you cited no evidence to substantiate your claim, only accusations.
I'm not sure why I really need evidence when you are basically proving my point. The only effective treatment of trauma involves EXPOSURE TO TRAUMA! Holy shit! Magic!

I am assuming you think that by "exposure therapy" I mean some specific form of therapy that is the only approved and effective therapy for trauma, but by exposure therapy, I literally mean - therapies which involve exposure.

I think I will just single out the main point that I've been making over & over & over & over & over &&&&&&&&&& oooooooooooveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer again:

Forgetting & repression is antithetical to trauma management.

If you are seriously requiring "evidence" of this (after writing numerous articles which support the exact same standpoint), I question the validity of your knowledge base.

Attacking me by suggesting I know nothing and need to go back "and learn all this crap I didn't even bring up" is also pretty f*cking irrelevant, considering you basically haven't understood a single word I've stated the whole goddamn time I've been talking. I know this, because this WHOLE SITE is DEDICATED to EXACTLY MY POINT.

I truly apologize I didn't go off and list every single "Tier 1 approved therapy for PTSD with loads of empirical evidence" because - pardon this - but every Tier 1 therapy includes exposure, which is why I stated it was all exposure therapy.

I don't really honestly give a shit if that's "accurate or not" (as there is Really Specific Exposure Therapy - which I get - but again, singling THAT out as the "reason why I am wrong" while ignoring EVERYTHING ELSE I just said which explains, if you bother to read, what I MEAN, is pretty pointless), it still semantically explains my objective in a concise manner.

This treatment would involve forgetting and repression and a breakdown of LTP which is ultimately antithetical to trauma management based on EMPIRICALLY PROVEN THERAPIES across the board.

Am I making sense or do I just sound like I'm making fart noises?
 
I will even point you to the part of the post I originally made which you objected to which proves I was not speaking about one specific therapy:

desensitizing your brain to it by recalling it under specific methods.

okay, well, have fun. Sorry to have hijacked this thread. I am really just honestly so tired of people pulling apart every little nuance of what I say while basically ignoring the main objective of my point, because really, this whole entire side conversation - while proving my point about this thread in general (~*~Forgetting/dissociation/repression is not good form when treating trauma~*~*~) - is not related to this thread in general.

Using an LTP inhibitor doesn't remove the memory nor all of its traces from the brain. It just removes your conscious recall of the traumatic memory. Which is, inherently, not really the point of PTSD treatment. Considering there are loads and loads and loads of people who are diagnosed with PTSD who have dissociation issues (and have even forgotten years upon years of their lives, including myself) - the issues still persist regardless of accurate recall.

The whooleee poiinttt of memory is that it's not a precisely accurate recall anyway, I know I've read you stating when you were dealing with your memories you filled in the blanks with random dissociated crap to the point of remembering things that didn't happen, forgetting things that did happen, jumbling it up, confusing it - which are common in PTSD as ding~ding~ dissociation is a symptom of PTSD, but regardless, you STILL HAD PTSD.

Dissociation and repression and forgetting and removing conscious awareness of memory didn't really fix all that! Attacking your brain with some kind of method to eliminate the conscious recall of traumatic memory is pretty much just as effective as dissociation because it doesn't remove the impact the memory has had on your brain, which is why EVERY TIER ONE APPROVED THERAPY focuses on exposure to trauma rather than repression of trauma, because desensitization (the D, everybody, in EMDR) of the brain to the traumatic recall of the memory and of environment and blah blah is the whole point of treatment and is the most effective treatment, desensitization to core issues, etc - ~effective treatment~.

I could keep going, I guess, but I'm just going around in a circle trying to state exactly what I've just stated a billion times.
 
I'm not looking for a 'pill' cure, myself.

Been there, done that, requires too many new pills upon new pills. Even if there was a pill...I wouldn't choose to take it.

Learning life skills and how to deal with my traumas is my chosen path forward.

I tried just forgetting. I can't bring the lessons out of things I don't remember.

But, whatever works for anyone else is good. This just isn't my path.
 
That is my point. The four approved EMPIRICALLY VALIDATED TIER ONE THERAPIES FOR THE EFFECTIVE TREATMENT OF PTSD COMPRISE (INSERT ALL SORTS OF THERAPIES THAT FOCUS ON THE TRAUMA MEMORIES & DESENSITIZATION & NOT ON FORGETTING & REPRESSION).
Ok Sea, I get it... you're frustrated. Your frustration, IMO, is getting in the way of your thinking about trauma therapies and there actual application. As I recommended, you need to study what each trauma therapy is about to understand for yourself what they involve, which is not what you have concluded.

Your quote is my point... repression actually is one active part of trauma therapy under some circumstances. It is unwise to actively try and provoke the brain to remember something before the brain wants to do so, thus repression is actually a positive technique that is encouraged as part of trauma therapy.

You are broad brushing statements with therapy types, when in actuality, some aspects can be used positively. It is a case by case basis on how a person is approached.

I get the point you have broad brushed therapy types with a confusion to exposure therapy, regardless the term, your point is a belief of exposure to focus on the trauma and to desensitise. That is incorrect for what the effective spectrum of trauma treatments do. It is not what I primarily use when helping people... yet at times it may be a small part, again, case by case basis.

The tier 1 therapies DO NOT all focus on trauma memories and desensitization... they couldn't be further from that in actuality.

Cognitive trauma therapy has nothing to do with talking about the trauma. It has to do with correcting negative, automatic, thinking styles and changing irrational thought to rational, about challenging negative thinking styles and how to produce automatic evidence, not just negative evidence or only positive evidence, but a equality to view a broader scope of an issue and its resolution... a few other aspects as well. You don't have to go anywhere near a persons trauma to correct the problems associated with present tense depression and anxiety.

The person may link to a specific element that gave them that thought to provide evidence that substantiates the thought now, however; there is no desensitisation or focus on the trauma memory itself. Most peoples problems have nothing to do with the trauma itself, it has to do with the behaviour due to automatic thoughts that the trauma has created, thus they now have within their present tense.

Some people do need to explore their trauma to desensitise themselves to negative emotion. Common in combat trauma, not as common in sexual and complex trauma, which is usually automatic negative thoughts based purely due to the trauma endured.

You don't desensitise yourself, you literally focus on changing your thought behaviour.

Stress inoculation has nothing to do with trauma focus or desensitisation either. It has to do with managing stressors in your present and future tense, how to become proactive in relaxation and self-management.

EMDR is an exposure therapy, it does desensitise and recompile traumatic memories. Prolonged exposure is also a desensitisation therapy, however; it can also be applied without going anywhere near the actual traumatic memories, and instead focus on the fears themselves that are present tense. Yes, you desensitise fear initially, then you must revert back to cognitive distortions in thinking to actually change it. Desensitisation alone with fear will not be enough to change it for longevity... you must cognitively rationalise fear into another positive emotion.

Taking on your biggest trauma does not necessarily equal, I have to relive it all, focus on the trauma and desensitise. It usually means, paint me a picture of what you find as the most traumatic, then lets explore what you feel now due to that event, and change the automatic negative emotion via positive reinforcement and thought behaviour, to neutral and positive thinking methodologies within your current daily life. Again, no focus upon the trauma or desensitisation to the trauma memories themselves. You pull apart the present tense emotional elements based from a past traumatic event, then you focus on those emotions, not on the event itself. You don't desensitise emotion, you negotiate to find rational thought which will provide neutral and positive emotion options.

Basically, living in the past is what is causing people the problem more often than not. The entire idea of trauma therapy is to get the person out of the past, and only linking specific emotion to a past event to understand that emotion, in order to change it and focus on positive emotion combined with rational thought, as negative emotion typically brings irrational thought.

The idea when done right, is that if a person can change their thought behaviour, then they can control the negative emotion trauma memories attempt to impose upon your conscious brain to affect you... thus you actually learn to put the memories away so they no longer bother you as much... which is ignoring in a positive manner, not a negative manner. You cannot forget, agreed on that point.
 
Wow... I come back from class (I'm getting expert on figuring DNA dilution proportions!) and dinner and things just exploded.

I don't worry about hijacks so much, personally. Sometimes you can get a really rich exchange when threads sort of meander their own way.

....I'm hoping I didn't say anything to tick people off....if I did, I would hope they would say so...
 
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