Lawyers, Fees And The Concept Of Time Costing

[Sighs]

Didn't want to derail someone else's thread so came over here instead.

@coco9 - I realise that defending lawyers will not be a popular stance to take, but I'm intrigued by your reasoning. Why exactly should a lawyer give you 30 minutes of their time for free? Should a doctor also give me 30 minutes of time for free so that I can decide whether they can help me? What about dentists? Engineers? Architects? Home decorators? How many hours per week should a lawyer (or doctor or dentist etc) work for free?

I know its hard to pick up tone in text so I want to explicitly state that I am not trying to come across as sarcastic or rude. I just want to understand why people think lawyers should work for free when everyone else gets paid for their time.

 

[sedna]

Didn't want to derail someone else's thread so came over here instead.

@coco9 - I rea...

All good attorneys can asses a situation in a brief consultation. Whether its worthwhile for you to pursue, who may better serve you, or how you can avoid litigation.

They are also assessing whether you are worthwhile for them , if they want to be involved in your case, and if you have the means to pay their fees over the estimated course of action.

It is in fact, a mutual interview. The attorney is considering you as prospective client and may turn you down or refer you elsewhere.

I dont know what attorneys charge in Australia, believe me, in CA they're not sweating the mutual consult pro bono. :cautious:

 

[Deleted member 28740]

It is not really free time they are giving you. They are deciding whether or not there is a profit to be made on your situation. Free defense never (other than public). Pro Bono work is done by choice generally for a special interest and often for public appreciation towards elected office.

 

[Deleted member 28740]

How many hours per week should a lawyer (or doctor or dentist etc) work for free?

Doctors Without Borders / Mediciene Sans Frontiers donate free all over the world often in war torn and disaster situations pro bono.

When you love the work you do, and have the resources to give to those that would go without, a rich and fulfilling life and use of one's gifts.

 

[Pencil]

A 'free quotation' is in fact common practice in many industries.

 

[Sighs]

All good attorneys can asses a situation in a brief consultation.

So no matter how complex the situation or how incomplete the information provided by the client if the attorney is "good" they can crystal ball the outcome after a 30 minute discussion? :roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

Many people here also assume that all lawyers are rolling in money so why shouldn't they do stuff for free. Not only is that often not the case but the logic behind it escapes me.

It is in fact, a mutual interview.

They are also assessing whether you are worthwhile for them , if they want to be involved in your case, and if you have the means to pay their fees over the estimated course of action.

How is this different for the other professions I mentioned? Why will my doctor not give me 30 minutes of his/her time for free to figure out if I am worthwhile for them or whether I just have a virus and should go home to bed?

It is not really free time they are giving you. They are deciding whether or not there is a profit to be made on your situation.

So.... lawyers should always operate on contingency fees? That raises some serious access to justice issues.

Pro Bono work is done by choice generally for a special interest and often for public appreciation towards elected office.

Mmm - we don't have the kind of elected offices you have in the US. Our system doesn't work that way. Here pro bono work is done for charities, homeless etc. Not 30 minutes for each and every client through the door.

@Pencil - your comment makes the most sense. I agree that some tradespeople will give free quotes but many won't even attend without a "call out fee" which is non-refundable if they can't fix the problem.

I'm going to leave this one alone now on the basis that there are significant cultural differences in the practice of law in the USA and in Australia.

 

[Deleted member 28740]

So.... lawyers should always operate on contingency fees? That raises some serious access to justice issues.

Exactly so. Rich and guilty a good defense. Poor and innocent … for profit prisons, can't seem to build enough in the US.

 

[Pencil]

Not each and every client who walks through the door asks for a free session. But not every person who desperately needs legal advice can pay an exorbitant fee upfront. And yes, perhaps there are differences from one country to the next: In South Africa it is possible to talk to lawyers and simply ASK them if they would be willing to provide a consultation for free or at a reduced fee - and many are willing. I'm sure that is the case the world over.

 

[sedna]

So no matter how complex the situation or how incomplete the information provided by the client if the at...

Okay Sighs,
I'm going to go ahead and throw down here,

I've spent somewhere in the ballpark 200k in attorneys fees . All of that within a 7 year span. Both in the U.S and Europe.

I've dealt with very good, in fact my last one was the best in the Bay Area, and the very very bad.

The Attorney that wont talk to you without the money meter ticking as soon as you walk in is the guy who's crap. Thats a fact. I was in a position for a while to have a guy from a strip mall at Lawyers For Less ( as in they will get you less , jokes on you ) every guy in his league charged as much as they could as fast as they could, even when they didnt have cheesy firms and were trying to look legit.

If your attorney wont look at your case and discuss fees while charging you to do it, then he is in fact :roflmao::roflmao::roflmao: at you.

 

[Deleted member 28740]

@Pencil Still overwhelmed by the OP case. And….. OJ and Cosby and…..

 

[sedna]

So no matter how complex the situation or how incomplete the information provided by the client if the at...

Sighs,

I was heading at the door to drop a kid off somewhere and rushed that reply, but now that Im looking closer at your comment I have to say that you really do have absolutely no idea what your talking about. I mean that in a not unfriendly way...but I dont think you've ever hired a lawyer.

I didnt say anything about pro bono work. I said a pro bono consult. Then I detailed exactly what that entails for both parties.

I cant fathom why you'd think a consult means " crystal balling it " ....I'm not sure how to start from square one on what a legal consultation is, but I thought I did a pretty good job breaking it down in my first comment.

For reasons only you know, you interpreted my breakdown as giving the lawyer 30 minutes to figure out how to guarantee your outcome and beg for your case while you give him whatever shitty information. Just go back and reread the first description, I'm not going to describe it all over again.

The legal system is nothing like getting medical help for a flu. That comparison is irrelevant.

"The attitude that attorneys are rolling in money and should just do stuff for free."..also does not apply to my explanation of gauging the legitimacy and competency of your attorney by asking for the customary 30 minute bono consult.

A lot of attorneys are rolling in big big money here. Even more aren't. The worst attorneys I've ever dealt with are broke and over charge. Like I said in my original post, I've spent a lot of time in court rooms.

If you ever need a lawyer someday, and hope you dont, better take my advice here. ;)

 

[Sighs]

I have to say that you really do have absolutely no idea what your talking about.

:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

I've been a lawyer for 17 years. I guarantee I've sat in more legal consultations than you have. And I'm good. I've worked for global law firms (top 5 in the world).

Not every consult is for a litigation matter. Not every consult is a "mutual interview". Most clients come in with a question about what the law is and how it applies to their situation. I tell them. Then I charge them. Even if the answer is "The law can't help you." Because now they know. They may not like the answer but they have one.

I do pro bono work in my own time. For causes I believe in. Like helping people suffering from PTSD.