Mechanics Of A Taker!

[joeylittle]

I don't think every selfish, manipulative person is necessarily a sociopath....or a narcissist...or any other personality disorder.

And it takes a lot more energy to vilify them than it does to change your own perception (or situation) so they cannot affect you anymore.

Personally, these kinds of casual diagnoses of mental disorders really bother me. It's pop psychology at its worst.

I do not doubt that members here have encountered, been abused by, and suffered due to the actions of individuals who would likely garner a true diagnosis of sociopathy or narcissism.

I do, however, question whether or not every selfish asshole, workplace bully, difficult ex, and abusive parent/child/boss, is a person with a legitimate personality disorder.

Traits do not a disorder make.

Were that to be true, anyone and everyone who has had a tough experience - loss of a loved one, bad break-up, significant change in family dynamic - would have PTSD.

If traits equal disorder, everyone is mentally ill.

I don't find the line of thinking to be helpful, personally.

 

[Nevermore]

Agreed. I don't call it a personality disorder, just people who are unaware of the boundaries of others and maybe lacking a few social skills.
I'm embarrassed to say it but when I was young, I didn't really get it either - not through malice, through inexperience. Fresh from the farm and no idea how things worked.
I do remember that when I'm on the other end!
pribably why it annoys me so much!!

 

[Deleted member 541]

I will respectfully disagree.... You can not be used, if you don't allow it. "NO" is a complete sentence.....

 

[Seasounds]

@joeylittle, I appreciate the shift in this thread, you supported..

One of my teachers once answered the question, "Why do people not see through a a person who offers false qualities/gifts?'
The answer, "We become vulnerable when we need something the other person offers, that we don't give ourselves-be it love, company, money, courage."

This gave me insight into what I could cultivate for myself, that would put a plug in my 'leaking dike', so to speak.

 

[Nevermore]

@She Cat, its true you can't be used when you are aware!! You can be used when you're naive and unaware.
But once you've been bitten, that's when the awareness kicks in.
But there are definitely innocent victims of others out there. I wish it wasn't so, but it is. It's all about learning
If you refuse to learn and keep putting yourself in the line of fire, that's something different....

 

[Deleted member 34535]

I don't think every selfish, manipulative person is necessarily a sociopath....or a narcissist...or...

The vast majority of the things that takers do and who they are can just be chalked up to good old "FREE WILL."

 

[Deleted member 34535]

Givers love to give and takers love to take. They are attracted to one another like flies and honey. I think those of us who were abused, especially when the abuse took place at a tender age are givers on steroids. My take on it is due to our traumas, most of us are in a never ending state of hyper-vigilance. We are incapable of feeling love because we are so busy hovering over everyone always looking for our next potential threat. Even if love is present, we don't trust it because we have been burned so badly. So we are naturally attracted to takers. We give ceaselessly without regard for our well being because we feel worthless. So by giving and giving and giving, we can atleast see others be happy by our giving even if it is an act or show on their part. Please feel free to chime in. Blessings to all!

 

[Nevermore]

@crc53liamt
I agree with this. I did this for many years but I was also very needy emotionally and I realise now I drained others emotionally.
It feels like a self perpetuating cycle. One I'm really glad I jumped off eventually!!

 

[GrayOwl]

I will respectfully disagree.... You can not be used, if you don't allow it. "NO" is a complete sentenc...

Thanks. Although I do agree, if one does not have the experience or the mental tools to recognize they are being used, one is likely to get used or abused while they learn the ropes. You are correct, we are largely responsible for our own self preservation. Sadly, giving credit where credit is due, there are some highly skilled and malicious abusers out there, who can literally, get away with murder. I won't judge as to what others have endured. I've used "NO" to no avail. My case has already been heard and ruled in my favor once before three chief justices in Washington D.C., after which I, and others were promptly and viciously assaulted again. One of them is dead, three others have died previously, dozens are crippled or hurt. The list goes on. There are some talented "abusers" out there and some effective "enablers" who are called "great" at what they do, fathers, businessmen, citizens, husbands, despots - whatever they do. Ask the people of Syria or Iraq what protection or safe haven "NO" has given them; I know that is an extreme example, but there are those who will invade your space ruthlessly. That's where the "legal system", in this country, with all it's loopholes, is supposed to help.

I don't think every selfish, manipulative person is necessarily a sociopath....or a narcissist...or...

Here, I also largely agree.
Placing labels and vilifying is far less important than the healing process. Part of my posting bordered on personal venting. Thank you for allowing me that opportunity. Public diagnosis of others should be left to professionals.

What is important though is having tools and criteria for identifying what we are feeling or perceiving..... And being able to identify that it is harmful or unhealthy to our being. Having some of these characteristics spelled out may help one to identify danger signs and avoid harmful situations. As with any knowledge, use with caution.
For me, it has had little to do with labelling or vilifying others - to understand that what has happened to me is legitimately recognized and defined by the medical profession as abusive with definitive characteristics - is an incredible weight off my shoulders. I spent my life being told I deserved "this" and I brought it all upon myself - as did others - that the death, destruction, and toxicity that I have witnessed and lived through I brought upon myself. But that's not true. That is the abusers' mantra. That behavior can be clinically described and verified.

The start of this thread I thought was to discuss "characteristics" of takers. A lot of us here are here because of abuse. A lot of us continue to be abused and suffer symptoms because we don't recognize what and how it occurs. I agree Joey......please don't aspire to put "labels" on people - but if someone is experiencing trauma or abuse and some of these characteristics help identify what you are feeling and lead you toward the healing process, I hope they can be of some use. They were to me. Learning what was being used on me to create the wound allowed me to address it and start the healing process.

I'm still early in on the healing process I guess. Thanks to all for help.

 

[GrayOwl]

Givers love to give and takers love to take. They are attracted to one another like flies and honey....

You nailed it. In my experience.

 

[joeylittle]

I understand venting, and absolutely agree with this:

someone is experiencing trauma or abuse and some of these characteristics help identify what you are feeling and lead you toward the healing process, I hope they can be of some use. They were to me.

I was responding to this:

Takers. You describe AntiSocial Personality Disorder (ASPD)...It is not like we imagine these things or these people. Volumes have been written and descriptive clinical diagnosis are available. They exist in our homes, our workplaces, and our society.

Some of us on this site are here because in some way, WE, or someone we care about, have invited these monsters into our lives...

I see more danger in labeling a set of traits: abuse can happen without it being characteristic of a personality disorder. But, if all someone takes away is that it's not abuse unless it fits detailed traits of ASPD, then they may not recognize it (if that makes sense).

Some people can be loving and supportive 90% of the time, and inadvertently abusive the other 10%. Not every abuser is a manipulator. I agree that most probably are, but some are not.

I believe abuse can be check listed as:

• Does it hurt me - physically or emotionally or materially?
• When it's happening, am I being called out for being wrong, making a mistake, etc. - when I know it was an accident, or didn't happen as they say?
• Am I afraid?

I think any one of those things should give one reason to step back and question a relationship.

Abuse can be small and subtle.

 

[Deleted member 541]

Again, I will say that you can not be used unless you allow it. "No" is a complete sentence. What I think people may be missing here is this. .... Again, just my opinion, and I'm not trying to shove this down anyone's throat.

I think many people have what I call a good heart or a kind hearted person. They are willing to help out someone, to give their shirt off their back. I think many people know someone like this, or COULD be that person. Then, someone comes along and takes the shirt from that kind hearted person and then the shit hits the fan, and the kind hearted person gets pissed. THIS my friends is where the issue lies.... So, in reality where does the blame lie??? Is it with the person that gave the shirt off his back because he was WILLING to give???? or does it lie with the one TAKING the shirt?????

Sometimes shit just happens and when it does, then people need to learn from it. Yes, I do believe that there are people out there that are opportunist and they will take whatever they can get from anyone that they can. People really just need to be aware, and if you get taken, WHO is really to blame?????