My Body Can't Handle Ssris... Can Anyone Recommend Other Ptsd Meds?

[anthony]

Professionals SAY that this class of meds works on both anxiety and depression, but in my opinion, it works when the anxiety is caused by the depression, NOT when the depression is caused by the anxiety.

That is actually an excellent way of putting it.

Mental health professionals "presume" automatically that you have psychological depression. Both psychological and biological depression are treated with anti-depressants. If you had psychological depression, then anti-depressants would do the correct job in theory based on what is known about depression and how anti-depressants work.

So... the problem though, as SOL outlined, the majority of depression in PTSD sufferers is not biological or psychological, its aTypical which is a mood depression, not a neurotransmitter effective depression. Change the mood, remove the depression.

SOL really put it an excellent way, thanks for that SOL.

Physicians just "assume" nowadays, they don't start at the lesser and work their way upwards, instead they go stupid and go to the extreme first, then pump up the volume further when you complain, hoping you become so dazed and confused you just stop feeling anything, or at least so you stop bothering them apart from a monthly med check for 5 minutes and $100 later. They sleep better, your concerns go unheard.

Mental health professionals... WAKE THE F*CK UP to yourselves and listen to your patients! Please...

 

[Iam]

Popped on this thread because I have a 6 month check up with my primary dr today and am thinking of asking him to take me off wellbutrin (which I have to admit has helped to some degree) and putting me on an anti anxiety med instead.

I realized some time within the last 6 months that my depression is caused by anxiety thanks to Anthony's original article on this and the typical psycho technique of becoming aware of what your thoughts were just prior to becoming sad or anxious. I found that when I got an "out of the blue" intense sad feeling my most immediate prior thoughts had to with feeling anxious either about things I had to do or things I had done/not done. Just knowing this helps with getting my depression under control, but I still get general anxiety. Sometimes I can figure out what is causing it and am able to change my thought pattern, but other times I cannot figure out what is making me anxious. The problem is, if something triggers intense anxiety it's hard to "flip that switch" back off.

Wondering if it would be worth weaning off the wellbutrin and switching to valium, xanax or paxil. In fact, I hate the thought of being on 2 medications. Would I have to wean off the Wellbutrin if I switched? I'm doing pretty well so making a switch is scary, but I'd really like to find a way to fully get rid of the anxiety....

 

[anthony]

Nothing will fully get rid of the anxiety when you have PTSD... and your severity equates to that obviously.

You highlighted that Wellbutrin is working for you and you're stable and functioning quite well... so I'm not sure if changing is right for you or not... that is a decision you must make obviously.

I am one who whilst depression can wipe me out, its only when I get anxious. When I was on SSRI's, the entire time I was more depressed and suicidal... so I was in that majority who have aTypical depression as part of PTSD, due to anxiety.

Xanax is not a drug I would recommend, as its for panic attacks, not for longevity use, and it is highly behaviourally addictive due to the fast acting hit it gives you. Valium... far better at smaller doses, as its a slow release drug, yet still fast acting, but short lived, ie. it starts working in 30 minutes of taking it, but you need a second one 6hrs later to keep it in your system until bed time, at which point it wears out of you for a good part. If you used Valium only when you had anxiety, then its just as bad as using Xanax IMO... if you use it as a preventative, being regular twice daily, it keeps anxiety in check and thus depression as well, when related to the majority of PTSD cases.

IMHO, if you where struggling with SSRI's, whether it be you're suicidal / more depressed or your physician has you maxed out on dosage and you feel like a zombie, then I would look at getting off them.

Any withdrawal from a drug will cause massive symptom spikes, depression, etc... it will throw your body into turmoil, to the point you will likely make a decision to get back on the drug again for sanity. Its a tough process getting off drugs, and still tough to change them.

I'm not sure how well valium would work or interact whilst getting off an SSRI. I was on nothing when I went onto this new adoptive approach... so I had no issues with other medications to worry about.

 

[Iam]

Thanks Anthony. The ssri's definitely help keep me from being suicidal and even slowly weaning off them put me in the hospital last year. My body can only tolerate a half dosage of the wellbutrin. Any more than that and I get very sick, i.e. dizzy and nauseous. I now know anxiety very definitely increases my depression so I just can't help but wonder if the depression itself is really anxiety. If it is, treating the anxiety instead might be a better way.

Though, as you said, there will always be some anxiety with PTSD. Maybe I should just leave well enough alone since I am doing so well. I just hate the physical symptoms and the racing thoughts anxiety produces. Maybe continued practicing of CBT and mindsight will be enough to keep that in check.

BTW, have you read Mindsight By Daniel Siegel MD? If not, I would HIGHLY recommend it. It helped me tremendously and might help others here. I read it close to a year ago and am going back thru it now for a refresher and hopefully make it's precepts more second nature than a conscious effort.

Thanks for your imput Anthony......I'll bring it up to my P dr. today and my trauma T Friday (though she will probably just refer me back the the trauma NP that I really don't like LOL).

 

[amethist]

This is exactly the problem my husband is now worrying about, as in what will happen to him when he starts to come off the SSRI's. He has started to reduce them slightly, so hopefully this may reduce some of the impact, but I am prepared for a hell of a ride with this.

He now has an appointment for next Thursday to see a new Psych about his medication, and he is very worried about the approach that will be taken.

The first question to be asked will be what she knows about PTSD and does she know what kind of illness it is. If she says not a lot to the first and a depressive illness to the second, I know he is screwed again. But I have promised to keep the Ninja Doberman in check.

I am taking print off's from here, just in case she needs educating. We are actually stuck with who hubby see's so you can see the problems that could occur.

He knows he has a long hard slog to follow the med change and he knows it will possibly be this time next year before he can look back and see the results, but he wants to do it now. He is so fed up of not being able to function, being that lifeless zombie you mentioned Anthony.

If anyone can recommend anything, or say keep away from that, so he can at least have some say in what he is given. Well it will be me that speaks up this time, as he is so far under the influence of what has been shoved at him up until now, they could give him smarties and he would agree to it if it got him off these.

I am looking up what the different names are in the UK, just so I have an idea of what could be offered.

 

[amethist]

Oh my now I am worried, the meds we are talking about hubby coming off of is Paroxetine, Paxil to some and Seroxat to to others depending which country you are in. he is taking 40mg in a morning, this is down from 60mg a few weeks back. This is the one that every PTSD doc int he Uk recommends, so we could well have an issue going against what the so called experts recommend. MM the Dr who first gave him this has now left and gone abroad, to Australia of all places.

From what I have just read, from others who have been on this, it has taken a long hard slog just to get off this, having to take something else to reduce the issues of the effects, then having to come off what ever that one was.

MM think I need to run a away now.

 

[anthony]

It is a problem...

Don't forget though, if someone has uncontrolled PTSD and they haven't healed their trauma and really minimised their symptoms through learning all the techniques relevant to dealing with PTSD... then valium is not the solution, because the dosage would be too high to sustain.

For example, someone who has PTSD and refuses to really fix themselves for the majority of the problems and symptoms, then valium will not work long term, because the dosage would be too high and valium in high doses has major issues...

The use of valium will only work IF you have done a good amount of work already, got yourself quite stable, yet still suffering bouts of anxiety and depression, yet are still manageable by yourself... then low dose valium will do far better than SSRI's, as the valium takes that edge of the anxiety / removes it, thus gets rid of the depression, without the issue of the problems that can occur with higher doses of valium.

Saying that, there are other drugs out there for those suffering more daily, than SSRI's, that treat the anxiety and not the depression.

Medicine moved to SSRI's and SNRI's because they gave the least side effects than previous medications, being MAOI's and Benzo's, however; they also have raised new issues at the same time.

Every single person is really a trial and error approach with any type of medication. For some, SSRI's will work perfectly. Some may require SNRI's. Some may require older drug labels because their bodies and/or symptoms of SSRI's and SNRI's just don't play nice together, which for PTSD seems to be a good majority of people, contrary to physicians beliefs.

We fortunately have some PTSD experts close to us, and some good doctors who use lots of commonsense, so they aren't focused on just one type of medication or another, instead they are willing to trial different drugs.

If you take a pill and it starts making you ill, I'm sorry, but doctors theories on just keep taking it and then up the dose, isn't going to make it better, issues will still be present.

You're better off to shut them down the moment a new drug gives you issues, and try the next option, until you find a drug that is right for your system uniquely and gives the the results you need with the least issues.

With a little effort on a physicians part, and time, there is a drug they could match correctly to every person through trial and error... but ignorance is not helping when their solution is to just up the dose, up the dose, up the dose, or now add another med to counter a major symptom being presented by a drug. Taking a drug to counter a side effect of another drug is not a real commonsense solution for the patient IMHO.

Instead, that screams arrogance and ignorance from the treating physician in my eyes. Or "Doctors Syndrome", I'm right, you're wrong, end of story... I know your body better than you know it mentality.

 

[amethist]

Hubby is desperately wanting to do all he has been told by his therapist and what I have learned form here. But because of the medication, he is stuffed within an hour of taking them. Which is making it extremely difficult for him to function as he wants to and should be able to by now.

So his depression is really just being in a naffed off and fed up mood for not being able to function.

Having taken a low dose myself for only 2 days, I do understand how he must be feeling, and no help being given when he has asked and asked for it.

Wish us luck, because it seems as if we may need it.

 

[anthony]

Your exact example is why I went off medication myself for many years, in order to heal my trauma and learn how to get a hold of PTSD management... my minor use now literally takes off that last edge that I just couldn't get rid off through any other means.

Even now, I have already dropped from 2mg valium twice daily to just in the morning... which is working well for me.

Best of luck though... I completely understand how difficult it is. I was extremely motivated though to get off medication and work things out for myself... though I also understand others are not, and thus must be done in a way they feel suits them.

I hope all works out well for hubby... and you.

 

[amethist]

We have got this far, so we see no reason why we cant keep going.

Both with our eyes wide open for what could happen while this is being sorted. Like he said he may go off the rails a bit at first, and I know how to shut the door behind me when I leave him to it. ;) Not always as quietly as I should though. :oops:

 

[anthony]

You do crack me up...

 

[Iam]

Good luck with all of it Amethist. I'm rooting for you both!

My Dr and I decided, since I have been relatively stable for a few months, to leave things as they are for now at 150 mg of Wellbutrin per day. I really do want to cut the meds out, but have to admit that I am afraid of doing so. I'm probably still to vulnerable to try doing it now. Maybe once I am done with EMDR and being stable is the status quo I can start weaning off. I sure hope so!