Pros And Cons

[user27357]

I try to make decisions based on pros and cons.

ALL of the pros about ending this are for me, ALL of the cons are effects on other people.

Except that I would be dead.

If I am dead, things will never get better for me because there will be no me.

If I cannot be convinced that things could get better, doesn't that take the last stopper off the list?

Of course I do not want to effect others in a negative way, but hey, sometimes being alive is a negative for them too, and they sometimes seem bent on effecting me negatively so what the hell?

I am not talking about direct, right now suicide. I am talking about risking making some moves that will either result in a better life for me or more regret than I could bear. And then suicide.

Is hanging onto a miserable existance for the good of others worth it? Is it better to lack an existance at all?

If I was going to do this, I would have done it. Instead I think about thinking about it and do nothing but continue what I know is a waste of a life.

I wish I was confused. I am afraid I am seeing this all far too clearly.

 

[TeaLeaf]

Enough- first of all, hugs to you, it sounds like you are going through a terrible time. I've been at the point you are describing more times than I can count so I definitely get the urge to commit suicide. For me, sometimes it was comforting, I felt like at least I had some control in my life so I'd have an exit strategy.

You are right, if you are dead, you will never know things getting better because you won't be alive to feel it. Have you read about the survivors of suicide attempts from the Golden Gate bridge? It turns out every one of them regretted trying to commit suicide.

Are you in therapy? If not, is there a way you could get therapy either individual or group?

I hope you feel better soon, even a tiny bit.

 

[user27357]

dropped all personal therapy in lieu of marriage counseling which has stalled badly. I will be talking about it with a counselor in 2 hours. After that, who knows? This isn't going to fix itself and I have no idea what might work, just a long history of a life that hasn't.

I have been party to the aftermath of lots of suicides, guess what? When it is done and over and we are picking up the pieces, the victims never say they regret doing it. They can't.

I get that, thanks.

 

[The Gov]

Suicide is a permanent solution to to a temporary problem. If you believe in an after life would you really want to come back and do this all over again? Why not fix this life so that your next life can be more full filling. Things will get better you just have to solve what is causing you so much pain and the solution is out there. Stay strong and live life to its fullest. This is what I tell myself every day. I have to believe things will improve. Life will knock you down and you have to get back up and keep fighting for you and your loved ones. The fact that you are in a relationship means that it can be saved and the fact that you are still here means you can be too. Take care and look after the one you love and they will look after you.

 

[Ronin]

Enough, can you make lists of what you need to get better - concrete things, day a time if it needs be, and then lists of tools of how to get there?

You're in a spot you figured there's pros and cons already, which is quite a lot (when the darkness isn't *all* shades of dark), so maybe the questions *could* be not between life and death, but *what* sort of life?

Your life isn't a waste.

 

[TeaLeaf]

dropped all personal therapy in lieu of marriage counseling which has stalled badly. I will be talking about it with a counselor in 2 hours. After that, who knows? This isn't going to fix itself and I have no idea what might work

I have also been in marriage counseling and can tell you some of my most desperate moments and intense suicidal thoughts have been triggered by difficulties in my marriage or triggered by marriage counseling. Couples counseling is hard work and much more painful than individual counseling, in my experience. Can you get some individual counseling or even part of a session individually with the marriage counselor?

Hang in there, I hope things get better for you.

 

[Chava]

If I cannot be convinced that things could get better

The hard part is when we don't know or can't imagine. I've been there A LOT. I also look back at my history. I tend to blot out the good parts and see a big pattern of failure. But it's most helpful for me to just stay present, even if it means acknowledging that I feel exhausted and hopeless or helpless. But usually in that gap where I can't imagine the outcome or how things can get better, that's where I'm forced to get creative and really make some changes. Some are wacky, like buying a scooter. Any little thing that helps me live for me. Not sure if any of this is helpful, but are there different kinds of lists you can make? Pros and cons are helpful to a point but you might be looking from a depressed perspective...that colors everything. I tried to commit suicide a few times in the past and sure I wouldn't have been around to regret it had it worked out, but I'm here to say it's been worth the extra blessing (and even the struggles) I didn't at all anticipate at the time...the stuff I never imagined when I felt hopeless.

I don't feel qualified to really help you here much (I hope you're honest with your therapist about this or can get back into your own therapy), but I am really glad I'm still here. I'm glad that through all the sh*t I've been able to somehow find myself. It's taken a long time, I've been lost a lot, but I only get one chance to do it.

 

[user27357]

@The Gov
Caring about someone so they will care about you is BS. You can't do a thing to change the way someone else behaves, and you can't blame them for the way you react to their actions. I know, I tried. This marriage got everything I had to give for 30 years. I get constant reminders that hoping for some empathy in return is an exercise in futility. The best times in our marriage are when I am too busy to care about the latest disappointment.

@TeaLeaf
So far this has been one on one only, no time at all with both of us in the room. She has been seen also, and there haven't been any plans made so far for both of us in the room together and I doubt there will ever be because I cancelled all future sessions today. She can keep going, I hope she does. I have been down these roads before and this counselor is selling what I don't buy any more.

@Kaia

A list is the first step towards seeing the evidence of the futility in my life laid out in a clear and concise form. Maybe not a good plan right now. One thing at a time, how about a foundation for the rest of the changes I want/need to make? How about trust?

First thing to do to affect change in my life: Find someone to trust.

Without anyone to trust, life IS a waste. Me alone against the world- OK, I give up. The world wins.

 

[user27357]

@Chava

thanks for the post. You have to understand where I am right now.

In daytime hours I can find something to get myself a moment of distraction, maybe string together some hours, a day at best. But when I sleep I wake up 100% aware of the situation. When the latest rotten thing gets done, I can't escape it. It is there.

Right now, better is just forgetting how bad it is.

Remembering the good times is a tough one, the best times have been when I was so busy or distracted I didn't see how bad it was. I was stoned for almost 10 years once. I worked 16 hours of overtime every two weeks for a couple years straight once. Raised three kids and hit every single soccer game, dance competition, football game, band concert. And a large percentage of the practices. Those were good years but most of that time was driving, or waiting. Or sleeping, I was working alot too. It hasn't resulted in kids that love their dad, no one denies that.

I had friends once, I thought it was good at the time but it was just a prelude to a feeling of betrayal that wouldn't have been so bad if I had known all along that it wasn't as good as I thought it was. I won't ever think that again.

trying to remember good things is hard when everytime I thought it was good I was just headed for a huge wake up. I can barely take the real wake ups I get every night now, the metaphorical ones are too much to spend time thinking about, but thanks for trying.

 

[Chava]

Even with it being bad can you put your list away and allow yourself to feel bad for a while? I used to so opposed to feeling anything other than over-productive. Some moments in our lives are just meaningless, senseless, purposeless, and that's when we should just go sit by a tree or search for frogs. Just allow the ambiguity. I understanding making lists, but this sounds like a way to just make you feel worse. Is there another way to assess the situation? Outside perspective?

 

[shimmerz]

It hasn't resulted in kids that love their dad, no one denies that.

I had friends once, I thought it was good at the time but it was just a prelude to a feeling of betrayal that wouldn't have been so bad if I had known all along that it wasn't as good as I thought it was.

I hear this loud and clear. I am sorry that this is what happened to you. It sounds to me like you are a kind, caring, compassionate soul who has been convinced that you and your life has minimalized by those around you. I am just coming out of this but still struggling with it to a degree.

For me it was such a sick feeling - after giving so much of myself, having those I cared about turn against me or conveniently forget the incredible effort I put into them. I had an overwhelming feeling that all of my giving through all of my life was for naught. Every effort, every kindness, all of my love - forgotten and denied. For myself, it is a feeling that I can't even find a word(s) for. Not just family but friends I had had for decades I realized were fair weather friends. So very difficult.

With some help I am learning to reframe things. I have had to let go of the delusions that I had about how people actually cared about me rather than how I would have cared about them, if that makes any sense. Along with those delusions I have had to let go of people (children, husband, and now grandchildren) and stand just with me. Other people have come into my world and helped me understand who I can become without all of the distractions. For a while I was very very alone with myself. That's when the thoughts came to me that there was nothing left for me.

I get twinges of it now but by and large it has passed for me. I wish for you some peace in all of this.

Love and Light
Shimmerz

 

[anthony]

I tend to agree with you, that looking at life that way does make things quite clear. What you miss though, is that that style of thinking is also a negative style, called black or white thinking. It's either this, or it's that. Ok... that is simplistic and can make things easier to deal with. But then you have this other complication... which is called everything in-between that you haven't, can't or don't want to think about and factor within your decision making process for pro's and con's.

I am talking about risking making some moves that will either result in a better life for me or more regret than I could bear. And then suicide.

This isn't unique to you, or PTSD. People do this every single day. They takes risks to better their own life, lives of family... sometimes they work, sometimes they fall down in a screaming pile with catastrophic effect. Sure... you could then use that as your reason for suicide. No doubt about it. OR... you could use that as your new starting point, take another risk and try to better your life as it stands then.