'Spiritual Bypass' - a question for discussion

[Tinyflame]

Well @Applecore , Idk but it might help to work backwards: what do you feel the need or hope is in saying what you feel you need to? That is, as you said:

That would be end of tyranny, for me. I fully expect him to swerve, manoeuvre, invalidate, reject, ignore and lie in response - and that will only serve as proof, a kind of moral justice as I see it.

But what I mean is, how or why would it do that? Just for example - not saying this motivates you- it could be saying the truth out loud, reclaiming your power, showing him you are not influenced by him any more. Or showing him you have reclaimed your life despite what's occurred, or standing up to him, or symbolically making a break from the tyranny, to grieve, to put in words the impact while you still can, to have a voice, to reclaim your strength and dignity, to show courage in the face off another's denial, to confirm what you know of his character or philosophies or justifications, to express your anger and pain, to let him know you don't buy in to his explanations, to see what he will respond with or answer a question burning in your mind? (Etc. etc. There are many possibilities and they probably take quite a bit of introspection.) How does moral justice look to you? What does it contain or require?

But as you said also:

For the record, I have quite a good life. I love walking in nature and cracking jokes, hugging my woman, reading interesting things, travelling to great places, doing good work and taking a good income from it. I like having largely recovered from something like depression and a CPTSD that had involuntary, intrusive thinking and compulsive rumination that verged on agnoizing madness. I like having cut down the booze and increased the gym.

So you have broken free and made some peace with it in many ways, One alternative way to know you've made peace is (also) not needing to confront him at all, that it no longer requires your attention or thoughts.

This stands out to me as important:

My past is unfinished business, and I would like to attend to it.

Which part needs attending? What do you need to attend to if you can find words to describe it? How will confronting him make this possible?

Just some thoughts, not great at expressing myself in words! I hope it's a bit helpful.

 

[Tinyflame]

ETA,

This is a very interesting idea. Can you say more?

Perhaps the most important part is just that- we don't know all details, what the future holds, what we don't know or understand yet- so many things. We can change our priorities as we change. People are largely a mystery to each other, and sometimes we are a mystery to ourselves.

So although many of us try to solve everything, or make meaning of it, or have neat boxes we can file stuff in, maybe sometimes we just don't know what we don't know and don't even realize? And time and life may open us up to new understandings or perspectives or information without trying to find them or solve stuff.

Maybe too one thought is what would produce the same end result if he was no longer there to address directly? Would it even be possible? (In which case if not there mighr be something you need or hope with the direct interaction).

 

[Applecore]

@Flyaway wrote this letter 10 years ago Mum Thought Staying Married To A Pedophile Was God's Will...

...with the aim of letting go of anger by writing it out. I think what Flyaway did goes a long way to show why I have felt a very strong urge to tell the abuser my truth, to speak up, to finally express a voice that was crushed when I was a child. For what it's worth, I can handle the risk of re-traumatisation, I have put myself through so much already that I feel able to handle pretty much anything.

So I've sent the letter. It took years to get round to it.

 

[Tinyflame]

I'm glad you did and said what you needed to for you @Applecore . Thank you for helping me understand better. I rarely feel things (for myself) from the perspective of anger it's usually hurt or self-deprecation or fear so I understand better now what you mean. Though in honesty her letter was also a hard read.

I'm glad it gave you a voice, though I'm very sorry what you went through.

 

[Movingforward10]

. For what it's worth, I can handle the risk of re-traumatisation, I have put myself through so much already that I feel able to handle pretty much anything.

So I've sent the letter. It took years to get round to it.

Well done for expressing yourself. It's very brave.
Whatever happens from here on in, you've said what you needed to. Whether it's heard or received the way you deserve, or not: beyond your control. And their response does not reflect your worth.

 

[Weemie]

"but everything is an illusion", how on earth do we communicate with that?

I wouldn't. That person isn't ready to have a real conversation about it, so I wouldn't bother. I'm a very religious person, but for me, the religious component makes my trauma more challenging to cope with, not less. It does not provide me the same sense of comfort that it must another person, because I don't view it in that way. It's not about comforting myself, it is about the nature of reality, and that doesn't always look neat and pretty. If you abuse someone else, and you have a spiritual component to your life that is legitimate, then that is just one other angle that you need to approach your trauma from.

 

[Applecore]

Thanks all. I love your support, and the support we all give each other here.

One of the clips from Matthew Perry this week said: "Secrets can kill you."

He was so right. I feel it tends to be better to let it out, one way or another.

 

[enough]

heard a referance yesterday to "magical" thinking as opposed to critical thinking. I am ok with magical thinking until it gets in the way of critical thought and reasoning. The fact is, no one knows for sure but if you want to believe you do, that's ok. I want to be a part of figuring this shit out.
Don't try to block funding based on a religious view, don't try to paint "non believers" as being bad or evil, and for sure don't show prejudice against us on the job or in a school. We have lawyers for that. I think the separation of church and state is about halfway there, we need a guarantee for medical and scientific funding, before we start paying for anything based on magical thinking including a religious war anywhere, any time. (pretty much all war is). Anything less is a waste of time between now and the better future we would all like to see come about. I think that clock is running backwards some days.......

 

[Tinyflame]

Just to say @Applecore , I once had a great Psychology Prof who was in a few modalities from prison therapy to marital counselling, wrote several books and was highly respected. He said, the truth is (he felt) that if every one had one good friend they could tell their secrets to there would be no need for him or therapists. I think it touches on the relationship being often as important or more so than the delivery- but the core being trust, non-judgementalness, listening and understanding and the like. The factors needed to get there. It is more rare to disclose if those are absent, though it can be done. But part of his secret sauce I would say was not only was he brilliant, and a good listener, but very humble and open to listening and considering questions and totally different viewpoints and reasoning with respect. But everyone's journey is different, as are people, and yet many commonalities.

I think shame thrives in silence too. And self-recriminations, too.

Good for you!

 

[Applecore]

Just to say @Applecore , I once had a great Psychology Prof who was in a few modalities from prison therapy to marital counselling, wrote several books and was highly respected. He said, the truth is (he felt) that if every one had one good friend they could tell their secrets to there would be no need for him or therapists. I think it touches on the relationship being often as important or more so than the delivery- but the core being trust, non-judgementalness, listening and understanding and the like. The factors needed to get there. It is more rare to disclose if those are absent, though it can be done. But part of his secret sauce I would say was not only was he brilliant, and a good listener, but very humble and open to listening and considering questions and totally different viewpoints and reasoning with respect. But everyone's journey is different, as are people, and yet many commonalities.

I think shame thrives in silence too. And self-recriminations, too.

Good for you!

Yes I get this. It's a fine art and a rare talent to be able to speak one's mind robustly without offending anyone. I haven't got there yet, I often find myself saying too little or too much.

I've said my truth to many friends. One aspect of me saying my truth to the person who wrecked my life is that when I was a child I had to walk around them as if on eggshells. It was a tyranny without freedom to tell the truth. That's why I needed to do this now, to take that freedom which we all deserve.

 

[Tinyflame]

Yes @Applecore , well you know the definition of Tact: the ability to light a fire under someone's ass without making their blood boil.

Yes I get this. It's a fine art and a rare talent to be able to speak one's mind robustly without offending anyone. I haven't got there yet, I often find myself saying too little or too much.

^^ Tbh I kind of like a lack of a filter. Sharedthat today with a sweet clerk. He's always so nice and competent and hard working. I think we both felt better for it.

Funny you say the freedom we 'deserve'. Certainly made me pause.

I think for me much of that freedom (or lack of) also comes from my mind, what I can let go of, what I focus on, what I am thinking. It was funny, yesterday I had an awful job to get done. In my mind's eye what I expected to uncover I also expected to be horrendous, and unknown. When I opened it up it wasn't nearly even remotely as bad as I feared. It made me think, I've often heard the term 'festering wound' , especially when we don't get help for years/ decades. I now think that is a poor choice of term and a misnomer. With it we can think of those wounds as near impossible to heal, and gross to us and others. But I think (sometimes) our thoughts of those wounds are more gross than reality. Not minimizing their impact, just that they are what they are, more dibilitating and life-affecting than they are rotten. They are there; we think about them with certain thoughts; but sometimes (at least my own) thoughts weight them wrongly. Lots came from others' decisions +/or behaviours, some were my own, all have FWIW now become part of the story of my life.

I won't lie, going back to the job yesterday after seeing that and a short break I also realized it was going to take much work, but not such gross work. I think I understand much of what ever holds me back is me, or how I'm choosing to think. And the emotions that come with it. Avoidance isn't the answer, nor repression, but the things that happen don't all have to come back to (all) my fault either, or be weighted to color how I see others and the world. They happened. It's now up to me to see where things go wrong because I choose them. Trust won't come to me, I have to choose it. Same with forgiveness, or courage, or perspective, or maybe even hope or faith. That 'freedom' you speak of. Of course, it's a work in progress and with some things quite the battle.

 

[Sideways]

That's why I needed to do this now, to take that freedom which we all deserve.

I think it’s an especially American concept to associate saying what you want as a form of freedom. Which doesn’t make it wrong or bad, but something to perhaps be aware of.

For me? I don’t need to go round telling people who have shat on me that they’ve been an arse. But it does inform the way I associate with them in the future.

I gain nothing, personally, by telling people things they don’t want to hear. I’d rather talk to people who are interested in listening. I get much more out of that.