Suicide - is there anything that can be said or done to help prevent it?

[Woundedhealer]

One of my students committed suicide this past week. We are all in shock as we thought she was so happy and grounded after so many years of turmoil.
What is bothering me the most is to hear people say that she is a coward and selfish for doing what she did and I’m over here saying f*ck that! Can you imagine the pain and the guts it took to make such a choice as ending her life? I just don’t understand how people can’t try to see things from another perspective but get so caught up in themselves and what they think or feel. I understand that when people grieve they can get angry as part of the process but it hurts me to hear them put blame onto someone who obviously was in so much pain. How can we do better? To those who have considered suicide, what can the people in your life say or do to support you? My best friend in high school also committed suicide and I’ve spent years trying to forgive myself for not seeing it coming. I know now that it had nothing to do with me but is there anything that can be said or done to help prevent it?

 

[somerandomguy]

is there anything that can be said or done to help prevent it?

Yes and no.

Suicide is always a person's own decision and while bullying or abuse can help them make that decision, no one who wasn't involved in bullying or abusing that individual should ever blame themselves for someone else's suicide.

Likewise, no one should ever be expected to reach out and advocate for themselves if they're feeling suicidal. For example, it's very trendy to blame men who kill themselves for failing to reach out and tell someone how bad they feel. This is wrong. We can all try to notice when people aren't "acting like themselves" and ask them what's wrong. Sometimes this will make a huge difference. Other times, there is actually no way to prevent it because people hide their suicidal feelings very well, or make the decision to kill themselves truly impulsively.

I should also point out that unless you have been specifically trained to deal with suicidality, you should call the authorities if someone admits to you that they are feeling suicidal.

Calling someone who killed themselves a coward or selfish will only convince others who are feeling suicidal not to come forward. And what a heinous thing to say about someone who felt so much pain that the only way they could deal with it was to end their life. People who say victims of suicide are selfish or cowardly are the real selfish, cowardly ones.

 

[siniang]

I should also point out that unless you have been specifically trained to deal with suicidality, you should call the authorities if someone admits to you that they are feeling suicidal.

I would like to add, if someone confides in you and they explicitly ask you to NOT call the authorities - don't. It's an immense sign of trust when people do reach out to you, don't misuse it.

Many years ago, I was the support for a suicidal sorta friend. I spent night after night after night chatting with him, for months.
He asked me to not call the police/... because he'd be institutionalized and he'd been before for a few days after an attempt or outspoken intention (don't quite remember anymore) and he said it was worse than anything. I respected that. (I guess it helped that my middle school friend was hospitalized for a few months after an alleged attempt and she picked up other disorders while there, I saw it play out first hand).
He also asked me to be on the phone with him while he goes through with that, as moral support of sorts. That I denied him.

(I cut all contact after half a year or so for my own safety and sanity, when he started kinda stalking me and became very pushy)

Other than that, people get caught up in their own societal expectations and religions and project them on others. Not their place. Calling people who commit suicide selfish or cowardly is - while I get where they're coming from - unacceptable. I'd start there. Instead of trying to prevent another suicide - educate non-suicidal people on the topic.

Their life - their choice.

(To be honest, one of the hardest parts for me while teaching at college was the notion that I was required by law to disclose any such things to the authorities. Fortunately I never had to - this was one of the hardest internal conflicts for me, because while I still rather people don't suicide and will always try to be supportive, I strongly think that at the end of the day suicide is not wrong and it's not my place to make that decision for them - or take it from them)

 

[Woundedhealer]

It sucks that people who are feeling like they want to end their lives can’t confide that to their therapists without fear of being institutionalized! It makes it so they can’t truly open up and isn’t that what therapy is for? But they have to walk around with this dark secret and no one to turn to... so sad

 

[flowerapple]

What is bothering me the most is to hear people say that she is a coward and selfish for doing what she did and I’m over here saying f*ck that! Can you imagine the pain and the guts it took to make such a choice as ending her life? I just don’t understand how people can’t try to see things from another perspective but get so caught up in themselves and what they think or feel.

I completely agree with you. Some people are just unable/unwilling to show empathy. And I think that this tendency to call people who commit suicide as cowards or selfish is one of the reasons why people who struggle with suicidal thoughts end up doing it because they think that those people are right, so they shouldn’t be here, but it’s not true.

To call someone who commits suicide as selfish and a coward is to be completely ignorant of all the thoughts and considerations and struggles that person would mentally have deal with before coming to the conclusion of suicide. It’s not selfish to commit suicide, and instead it might be actually selfless to do it. Most people, or at least speaking for myself, when thinking about suicide, they are thinking that to if they are out of the picture, the people surrounding them, their family and friends will be better off. That is a difficult thing to admit. To think that you are such a burden to the ones you love for, that you would die to relieve them of you (yes, I know you also don’t have to feel your pain), but I think that’s a selfless thing. I’m not trying to idealize suicide, but I’m just thinking that to it wouldn’t be selfish to commit suicide.

And I don’t think it would be cowardly either. Because to say or think something is one thing, but to carry it out is another. We all say things but we don’t always do them. And I can’t imagine the amount of strength it would take someone to actually kill themselves, speaking as someone who tried to do it but decided not to halfway through it and got help. I’m not saying it’s weak to be suicidal and not do it though either because that is also brave to do.

What I’m trying to say is that someone who commits suicide is not a coward and selfish, but is actually brave and selfless. The problem is that those positive qualities that should be their strengths end up becoming their weaknesses. Kinda like when you go for a job interview and they ask you what your weakness are. And when you answer you give them positive qualities as your weaknesses, like you don’t say you procrastinate but instead you say that you like to take the time to ensure that you work is the best, or you might say you’re a perfectionist. And instead of saying that you are talkative, you say that you are people-person who works well with others. Those aren’t the best examples, but still. It’s just a matter of changing the way you look at the quality. When suicidal, we dont think clearly, and once we get stuck in the cycle of finding the bad stuff about us, we just continue to do it. The people who judge those who commit suicide would be the selfish one in this scenario as they are the ones who are unable or unwilling to consider things from a point of view that is different from their own.

 

[unbrokenn]

Sometimes they’re too far gone.
I lost my friend to suicide this year.
He was so bright on the outside but I don’t think anything I could do or say could’ve made him stay, let alone anyone else.

 

[Eagle3]

I struggle with suicidality on a daily basis. I know what triggers it to go active, and I have plans in place to keep myself alive as long as possible. The hard part is, I see how society is not helping, and my unique challenges will never be accommodated at this rate. Suicide feels like an inevitability for me, even if circumstances changed drastically for the better. Am I doing everything possible to NOT die? Absolutely, since I know the pain it brings to family and my few friends. Will there be anything anyone can do to stop me should I ever make that decision? Nope, not really. My life truly sucks, and if I want/need to end it, I will. I'm just holding out meager hope as long as possible. The funny thing is, very few people know the full extent of the darkness lurking inside me. At work, I keep hearing about how happy, and strong, and dependable I am. If they only knew....

This is a truly tough subject, and those who don't have to face the reality of their own death can call us cowards all they want. For some of us, living is the bravest and most difficult choice we make. Either way, life or death, it is ultimately the responsibility of the one making the choice, and no one else's. Just being supportive of someone in pain is a big help, so us strong ones don't feel so damned alone in our struggles.

To those who have lost a loved one to suicide, I know how it feels. I lost a loved one too. However, I totally understand what made him choose that, I still respect the choice he made. It was the one I would have made in his shoes, and actually deal with making that choice almost every day. It hurts to lose them, but living can be hell for a lot of us. Hugs to everyone on both sides of this discussion.

 

[Ronin]

I think I owe it to others to try, & try hard for them to not lose them, but yeah, I can apply every skill & every Been there & every Not been there but Im here for you... and still lose.

I dont really think there are good anwers to that. You can, individually, do only so much.

The other question...
What can others in my life do? Give me something meaningful to do. I brush depression & suicidality aside with tasks, theyre still there but I got reasons to be around.

And remind me those gone I want to quit for, wanted me to live, when they lived. So the problem solutions got to be elsewhere than kicking the bucket. Because all my brain is doing, there, is trying to solve problems perceived unsolvable, by being done.

Aside of that, remind me of when I died. Remind me how difficult that bullshit is on all the poor medics. Remind me Im creating problems for others, by dying.... not solving them. So not on my agenda.

 

[Sideways]

It sucks that people who are feeling like they want to end their lives can’t confide that to their therapists without fear of being institutionalized! It makes it so they can’t truly open up and isn’t that what therapy is for?

Yes, but no.

When a patient talks about suicide with their T, if it’s handled competently, it gives them both options. I’ve gone to therapy some days planning to have that as my last day on earth, and come away with a rock solid plan on how to get through that with my T’s support.

There’s been other times where my T has called it, the risk is too high today, you’re too unwell to manage this alone, and I’ve been hospitalised against my will (many times! Many, many times!).

Easily, I wouldn’t be alive today if they hadn’t done that. Doesn’t make it an awesome fun option, but it can help keep someone alive when they’re struggling with a potentially fatal mental health issue.

It hasn’t stopped me from being able to talk my T about it. The concept that saying the word “suicide” means instant institutionalisation is a myth that prevents people getting good help from qualified T’s (depending of course on the quality of mental health services in the area).

In fact, talking about suicide, and thoughts about suicide, is a big part of what a lot of T’s do (and even GPs), especially those who specialise in depression.

 

[RVA21]

There's nothing anyone could've said or done in the times when I came close to ending my own life. I suppose they could've physically stopped me. But I would always have the ideation come back, no matter what anyone had said to me in the past. I just feel like, if we're done, we're done. There's nothing can change it. That's just how I feel though. Maybe others have things that would help them. I've struggled with it since childhood, it always comes back. Most times it was down to knowing I wasn't loved or wanted and I was being hurt by others. A real sense of worthlessness. I don't know how to make that feeling go. I often just feel like it's all pointless and I'm a waste of space.

 

[flowerapple]

I find this helps me when I feel suicidal or start to think about me. My T called it the “24 hour waiting period”. When I start to feel like this, I start the timer. And if at any point within the next 24 hours something happens, whether big or small, that makes me happy, if even fo a couple seconds, I have to reset the timer. And there normally is at least one thing throughout that time where I would be happy whether it’s something I heard or saw, and I’d have restart. And eventually, it comes to a point where I no longer feel suicidal, even though I might still be thinking about it, but I don’t have that go plan, or I’m not just ready yet to do it. And you can also change it from 24 hours to 48 or 72 hours.

There is nothing anyone would have been able to say to convince me not to do it because by that point I had basically given up. So I like that rule or waiting period because it’s not trying to convince me that life is so much better than I think, or people have it worse off, or I’m being irrational, or selfish, it’s not trying to do any of that. It’s just saying like wait a little and just see if there’s something that makes you smile a little today, and if so you reset the clock. Like I already say I’m going to do it, and there isn’t really a rush to do it, in the sense that I have to do it today, so I can just wait for 1-3 more days depending and just look and see. And I find that eventually, the feel to go through with it passes. Nothing else really changes, in the sense that I still feel depressed and I might still be thinking about suicide, but I’m not going to do anything about it just yet, I’ll keep on waiting and going for now.

 

[blackemerald1]

Aside of that, remind me of when I died. Remind me how difficult that bullshit is on all the poor medics. Remind me Im creating problems for others, by dying.... not solving them. So not on my agenda.

^Exactly. Thank you!

I've not met anyone that denigrated the memory of a person who committed suicide. Ever. I'm not unfamiliar with this phenomena of human behaviour.

If I did hear someone saying rubbish like that I'd probably tell them to stfup. You must be a different culture or even something abhorrent. :wtf: Where I am from the deceased are treated with respect. They are honoured even if they have died at their own hands.

I don't think people who commit suicide are cowards. But I don't think they are brave and courageous either. They are very unwell folks. It's not at all about doing anyone a favour. It's about being seriously unwell.

As for preventing suicide - There just cannot be a blame game with suicide. Well, there may be a couple of instances where someone who is responsible for the care of another (institutions, hospitals etc) is and should be held to account.

But not catching someone before they commit suicide out in normal, ordinary society is not specifically some else's fault. Nobody I've met as of yet... and I'm getting older now :rolleyes: can read minds! And the what if's are going to roll in whatever anyone does.

How can anyone be held to account? I've read the responses so far in this thread. Those that are intent on committing suicide either tell and accept help to prevent it or they don't and they carry that intention forward into action.

We can have a society that is either completely neglectful of mental health and people suffering from conditions who will progress towards attempting and commiting suicide or we have one where mental health is very much supported. Either way unfortunately we may have the same outcome. But which type of society is more likely to prevent a suicide?