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News This Was Too Close!!!!

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The family of the perpetrator of this attack is already apologizing and expressing shock.

I wonder if this means he wasnt part of ISIS or was radicalized without known of family. Im hoping ISIS didnt hit this close to me...its freaking me out to think about.

I have lived within 30 miles of no less than 3 mass shootings. It does hit home in a way that's hard to describe. It shakes a whole city.

Yes it does shake everyone up for sure!

Thank you for this thread

You are welcome.

:hug: to all of you that this is too close to whether it was too close in distance, too close in connections, or too close in experience.

Thanks @Anarchy! :hug:
 
In England, we might want to shoot a whole heap of people but we can't because it is INCREDIBLY difficult to get hold of guns. I heard that America has mass shootings every single day of the year - but the two or three don't count. If we can't get hold of guns or smuggle in guns, there are hardly any guns. an ordinary policeman doesn't carry a gun. I don't feel a need to go out and get a gun to protect myself against guns as the risk of a shooting is so low, people have to go through such stringent tests and background checks each year in order to get a gun license. Then they have to keep the gun under lock and key. In Europe we just shake our heads when Americans can't seem to tally the simple equation: how many mass shootings have occurred in England this year? None. How many mass shootings have occurred in England since records are kept. . three. Period. Three in as long as we have been keeping records.
Why? Because we have gun control. so people don't get killed.
Americans like their guns. After Sandy Hook 998 mass shootings have occurred.
It IS about guns.
We have just as many crazy people. but these crazy people can't get their hands on guns to kill masses of others.
Do the math. If it is not about guns we should have as many mass shootings per million people as you do. We don't.
 
There were 372 mass shootings in the US in 2015, killing 475 people and wounding 1,870, according to the Mass Shooting Tracker, which catalogues such incidents. A mass shooting is defined as a single shooting incident which kills or injures four or more people, including the assailant.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34996604
http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shootings/2015
http://www.shootingtracker.com

That's where the 'every day of the year' statistic comes from, @lostforgottensoul and @Kaluki

There are a few different mass shooting tracking research sites; I don't believe the one I've cited to be inflated or biased, but I'll find a cross reference and edit this post to reflect it.

ETA: the mass shooting stats, above, are from the Gun Violence Archive, a non-profit that is expressly not an advocacy group, only a research center. http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/methodology
 
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I dont like guns personally, never have but I dont know what I feel about complete gun control. Would this have happened if we had stricter gun control? I dont know.
 
The news is now reporting they just arrested yet another security guard (the Orlando attacker was a security guard for the event) at another gay pride event in LA who also had guns and explosives. There are other similarities as well.

Both these men were hired as security guards for gay pride events. They went through more screening than the general member of the public. They were in charge of security itself.
 
(the Orlando attacker was a security guard for the event)

Yeah, I read that on one of the sites (though I dont think anyone knows for sure yet), they are saying they were working for ISIS as security guards or something. I cant cite it as I was just reading and not copying the site URLs. Was trying to catch up if you will on lunch.

Im still super freaked...

ETA:
im very glad they caught him before LA had something bad happen but organized?
 
We have had mass shootings here in the UK, I can remember quite a few, but I don't want to write them down, in case it causes grief to anyone.

Despite our tight gun controls, it's still possible to buy weapons in any of our large cities, you just need to know who, and where to go, to get them?

Granted, there are more guns available in America, but to my mind, it's not the weapon that causes the worst threat, it's the person behind it that matters!

Just like cars really, they are not a danger in themselves, it's the person behind the wheel that is dangerous.
 
it's the person behind it that matters!

I do agree with that and there are some gun controls here. Not just anyone can legally buy a gun and register it. I cant as i go to a mental health professional. Though its not hard to get them illegally. But just talking about the legal controls we do have.

I agree that guns dont kill people, people kill people but thats a long debated subject.

ETA: If you are a terrotist, I dont think rules/laws apply anyway.
 
It's beginning to read more primarily as an act against gay men, and possibly a claim of ISIS only to draw more attention, or keep it from generating sympathy for/'martyr-ing' those who were killed.

ETA: Or not. It's just too early to say. ISIS claimed the act, but that does not necessarily mean they had anything to do with the planning or executing of it. Many terrorist organizations claim acts they did not instigate.

I personally think that hate crime can be considered an act of terrorism. Either way, it's terrible.

I don't think gun control would have done a thing. If you really want to walk into a room and kill or wound mass numbers of people, you will find a way. Gun control can put a hurdle in the way of something more impulsive...but really, not. And explosives are just as easy to manufacture.

Shooting up a room is more 'rewarding' for the shooter, when they are looking to experience their power (psychologically speaking).

Sometimes I want to go live on a very small, water-bound rock.
 
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I don't think gun control would have done a thing. If you really want to walk into a room and kill or wound mass numbers of people, you will find a way. Gun control can put a hurdle in the way of something more impulsive...but really, not. And explosives are just as easy to manufacture.

I agree gun control wouldnt of done much of anything and yep, pipe bombs are easy to make along with other sorts of explosives.

Sometimes I want to go live on a very small, water-bound rock.

Oh god, can I come with?
 
it is INCREDIBLY difficult to get hold of guns
It depends what circles people move in

I'm a bit rusty on the estimated figures, but it's somewhere in the ball park of 12 million un licensed guns in Britain


If we can't get hold of guns or smuggle in guns, there are hardly any guns.
Most recreational drugs are illegal - but, there's hardly a community in Britain where you can't get illegal hard drugs, at ever cheaper prices and higher purity.

We know from seizures that the drugs come into Britain and Ireland in consignments of up to 10 tons and more. We also know from seizures that smuggled duty free cigarettes come in by the shipping container full.

Both hard drugs and smuggled cigarettes are very high value goods. The gangs who smuggle them cannot go to the cops for security, or to report theft of their merchandise, so they have to provide their own security.

We already know from seizures of merchandise that the gangs are well able to smuggle individual consignments of several tons in weight.

There isn't much difference in the logistics between smuggling ten tons of hard drugs or a shipping container full of cigarettes, and smuggling the same weight of guns and ammunition in the same manner.

Obviously, commercially manufactured guns are going to be the easiest route: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...rgest-ever-weapons-cache-seizure-in-Kent.html
Incidentally, those are Vz 58 rifles, not AKs, but their superficial looks and performance are very similar

Organised clandestine manufacture is the next easiest; http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/08/11/mystery-9mm-machine-pistol-seized-europe/

And lastly, there are almost infinite numbers of home made bodges. I'll give a couple of examples

There is a gentleman of Turkish origin who, last I heard was serving a long prison sentence in the UK for selling blank firing replicas, that other people later, and unknown to him, put steel tubing barrels onto, and converted into machine pistols. I got to hear about him from libertarian friends who campaign against miscarriages of justice.

There was also a libertarian from near Leeds (PM me if you want his name, I'm not putting it on open forum) who by the late 1990s was sick and tired of people dismissing his argument that guns are actually fairly easy to make at home, so he designed and built a sub machinegun for himself, out of readily available steel tubing, and ordinary DIY tools. He didn't need a lathe or a milling machine.
He test fired it, wrote the project up, sent the drafts off for publication, and got a photographer to record the prototype. The photographer reported him, and he got five years in a high security prison with hardened criminals.
After he got out, he was thoroughly embittered, and published several other designs and means of improvising errrr "consumables"

The British authorities were very harsh with him after that, and were in clear contravention of at least one UN human rights declaration that Britain is a signatory to.

Nevertheless, he has shown that submachineguns and ammunition can be made at home from readily available materials and using ordinary DIY tools

actually, bugger it! It's not like the info is difficult to find, you can buy a commercially published book on Amazon UK
Just expect your name to end up on a list if you do buy it.

In summary - even with all of those illegal routes to guns, and the unsavoury people who are involved in smuggling drugs and cigarettes

none of them has yet done a mass shooting in Britain. I hope that I'm not tempting fate by writing that.
 
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