How Close Is Too Close For Therapists And Clients?

[BoN-bOn]

I may see things a little bit differently & it might not be so popular. As a professional who has cared for hundreds & hundreds of patients, I think people can get so caught up in trying to maintain boundaries & become so rigid & afraid of being sued that they forget to care for others from their heart. There have been many many times that I’ve done something that would’ve been considered an “ethical violation, (& I don’t mean anything sexual or inappropriate—no dating patients, nothing like that),” but sometimes you just have to say the hell with violations, I CARE about you & your healing is important to me. We all are drawn to certain people & connect to different people on different levels. For instance, l have been known to purchase treats or surprises to cheer up an elderly patient who is alone, or sat & watched tv for a while with someone who is sad, called & checked on an a patient after discharge. It’s not always damaging & dangerous to cross a boundary. Yes, l know that you have to be very, very, very careful, but sometimes it’s those little acts of kindness or “bending the rules” that are the most healing thing I’ve ever seen. Not only in myself, but to those that I give kindness to also.

Most of us here have sirens & red flags go off when we are beginning to trust someone. Danger! Danger! Sometimes it takes someone caring enough to meet us right where we are with acceptance & gentle persistence until we let them in. Sometimes it takes a little bit of “unconventional caring!” I am so thankful for 2 of the most important people in my life (both counselors) who haven’t given up on me & have gone above & beyond to earn my trust (& l don’t make it easy) & show me that it’s okay for me to accept kindness & love. & it’s okay for me to open my heart up again & give it. Im learning that not everyone who shows kindness is trying to hurt me or in it for some benefit of their own. Just the fact that l can say that i trust TWO people is big for me & is progress.

Just don’t get so caught up in the boundaries that you fail to see the beauty of the deep human connection & healing that might unfold along with it. :)

 

[rosey]

I may see things a little bit differently & it might not be so popular. As a professional who has cared...

Need more people like you in the world

 

[EveHarrington]

I may see things a little bit differently & it might not be so popular. As a professional who has cared...

But at the same time I think it can be recognized that what you describe is quite different than the OP who has formed a texting relationship with her therapist outside of therapy.

 

[BoN-bOn]

But at the same time I think it can be recognized that what you describe is quite different than...

Yes, I do agree there is a such thing as too far, I guess that’s when it’s up to us or them to decide if more boundaries should be put into place & it sounds like the OP & the T needed to have a discussion about it since it was brought up. I do wonder how the situation turned out.

 

[UnicornSightings]

I think if you’re asking then it’s gone too far. Otherwise it wouldn’t even be in your mind, you know.

 

[Deleted member 42665]

OP I looked it says you haven't been active since April, just curious how this all panned out... are you still close? You know in some cases Therapist and clients do form friendships AFTER therapy, it might be ok. I'm very close to my T, I don't discuss details online about it but it seems to be even more than what you have said, so lots of red flags I'm sure but it helps me and I love it. I would not be where I am with comfort and trust if it was not this way. Just wanted to send support, if you see this, feel free to message me. Hope all is well

 

[EveHarrington]

You see, the problem is that SOME of these relationships WILL hurt clients so for the protection of ALL, boundaries are a must as required by professional licensing organizations.

Really, when put this way, you can’t argue. It’s for the protection of all given that there are therapists out there who have shit for boundaries and didn’t bother to fix themselves before entering the profession.

It’s the same reason why locked wards take away lots of things that most people would be ok with. For the protection of ALL, we are stripped of things that may hurt SOME.

 

[anonymous]

I may see things a little bit differently & it might not be so popular.

It is nothing to do with being "popular" it is about being a competent professional who is capable to operate between ethical and legislative profession. That you even frame it in a high school "popularity" frameworks that is so self serving is most concerning. Just as a reminder ethics are principles and values which, along with conduct rules and common law, regulate a psychiatrist's/psychologist's behaviours. Dismissing them is not minor "non popular" option or opinion. It is opening the door to a whole range of inappropriate and abusive behaviours. Shame on you for your pathetic excuses.

As a professional who has cared for hundreds & hundreds of patients, I think people can get so caught up in trying to maintain boundaries & become so rigid & afraid of being sued that they forget to care for others from their heart.

If you are not competent enough to operate with the boundaries of your professional, then you need to find another profession where you are a not a risk to your clients and patients. Many, many professionals are able to provide care from heart without violating professional boundaries. It happens all around the planet.

Those ever so self serving rubbish "minor boundary violations" are a red flag about what type of purported professional that you. You don't know that your "minor boundary violations" haven't caused serious harms.

There have been many many times that I’ve done something that would’ve been considered an “ethical violation,

So your colleagues should have reported it or you should have self reported and shouldn't be working with vulnerable and traumatised people. You are a dangerous "professional". Proper trauma therapy has to take place within the grounded self container of highly skilled and ethical professional, of which you are not.

(& I don’t mean anything sexual or inappropriate—no dating patients, nothing like that),” but sometimes you just have to say the hell with violations,

But that is where the small violations lead to - it is a grooming of clients to get more and more of your needs met. The small violations pave the way for deeper betrayals and serious violations which can lead to the deaths of clients, and the destructions of families.

I CARE about you & your healing is important to me.

Lots of professionals are able to communicate and appropriately attach to clients without crossing the appropriate professional boundaries. If you are unable to operate within the boundaries of your professional you should look for another one.

We all are drawn to certain people & connect to different people on different levels. For instance, l have been known to purchase treats or surprises to cheer up an elderly patient who is alone, or sat & watched tv for a while with someone who is sad, called & checked on an a patient after discharge. It’s not always damaging & dangerous to cross a boundary.

These are the types of comments that the psychiatrist who got my friend's sister pregnant said to her at the beginning at the his boundary violations, that ended in her suicide when she realised that she was pregnant to him, her psychiatrist.

All the professionals that took my money, broken parts of my body, ran off with my assets, moved in to live with me - started with the "Oh well some of these professional boundaries are harmless to cross". These are self serving grooming behaviour and narratives that psychologists and psychiatrists use to begin their journey of exploitation of their clients.

Yes, l know that you have to be very, very, very careful, but sometimes it’s those little acts of kindness or “bending the rules” that are the most healing thing I’ve ever seen. Not only in myself, but to those that I give kindness to also.

These are the justifications that those that organise for their client's to leave their houses to them in wills, have sex with clients, take all the their clients money, move in with their clients, get into relationships with their clients. The boundaries violations bit by bit open vulnerable people up to more and more violations, that are more and more serious. I lost my two front teeth, my home, my money, my earning capacity, a chance to have a career due to escalation of some "very small and "kind" boundary violations" that opened the doors to more and more violations.

Are you sure you are not meeting your own needs by what you describe, because all the therapists that have done quite terrible things to me started off with the self serving rationalisations that you present here. This is why professionals should be in close supervisions, and not peddling their own self serving agendas - even if you aren't aware of what they are at this time. I am sure you will have a few stories that didn't go so well, which you have failed to mention here. There are always those stories if you dig around with the professionals that take the types of liberties that you are talking about. Your boundary violations are the thin edge of the wedge.

Most of us here have sirens & red flags go off when we are beginning to trust someone. Danger! Danger! Sometimes it takes someone caring enough to meet us right where we are with acceptance & gentle persistence until we let them in. Sometimes it takes a little bit of “unconventional caring!” I am so thankful for 2 of the most important people in my life (both counselors) who haven’t given up on me & have gone above & beyond to earn my trust (& l don’t make it easy) & show me that it’s okay for me to accept kindness & love. & it’s okay for me to open my heart up again & give it. Im learning that not everyone who shows kindness is trying to hurt me or in it for some benefit of their own. Just the fact that l can say that i trust TWO people is big for me & is progress.

Just don’t get so caught up in the boundaries that you fail to see the beauty of the deep human connection & healing that might unfold along with it. :)

Just don't get so caught up in your self serving narratives that you fail to see the beauty of professional ethics and your own (hopefully) intensive university training. Don't get so caught up in your own grooming behaviours that make it easy for your to meet your own neeeds through your own clients. Don't get so caught up in your own "minor professional boundary violations" that you fail to notice when they get more serious and dangerous to those that you alledged treat.

 

[Deleted member 42665]

You see, the problem is that SOME of these relationships WILL hurt clients so for the protection...

And that is unfair.

I don't think it should be that way and it is in life, it should be on a case by case basis, kinda like how certain dog breeds are banned from things and not others, some of those dogs in a breed may be crazy sweet and some who are on the ok list might be terrors. This is something I hope someday to see change in my lifetime, people stop paying for others, people get what works for them, as should dogs.

 

[anonymous]

“bending the rules” that are the most healing thing I’ve ever seen. Not only in myself, but to those that I give kindness to also.

This comment demonstrates that you don't have adequate professional boundaries when you conflate your needs as being the same or being potentially the same as your clients. You so need to get another professional. You are dangerous when you cannot distinguish between yourself and your clients. You are meeting your own needs through your own clients. This is dangerous for your clients and for you as well.

Most of us here have sirens & red flags go off when we are beginning to trust someone. Danger! Danger! Sometimes it takes someone caring enough to meet us right where we are with acceptance & gentle persistence until we let them in. Sometimes it takes a little bit of “unconventional caring!” I am so thankful for 2 of the most important people in my life (both counselors) who haven’t given up on me & have gone above & beyond to earn my trust (& l don’t make it easy) & show me that it’s okay for me to accept kindness & love. & it’s okay for me to open my heart up again & give it. Im learning that not everyone who shows kindness is trying to hurt me or in it for some benefit of their own. Just the fact that l can say that i trust TWO people is big for me & is progress.

Someone who has such poor attachment to other people, and in fact has been groomed by two questionable professionals should not be allowed to work with traumatised people, so go and work with the worried well where you can't cause as much damage to clients. If you only trust two people you are not mentally well enough to work in this profession. And your post is like a toxic erosion of ethical and professional boundaries. This is a self serving narrative of denial and self delusion. Get some good, appropriate, professional treatment so you are not compromised and you don't continue to compromise other clients.

Just don’t get so caught up in the boundaries that you fail to see the beauty of the deep human connection & healing that might unfold along with it. :)

Don't get so caught up in your own denial about meeting your own needs vis a vi your own clients that you work out your stuff through them rather than dealing with your own issues. This is one of the main reasons that some people masquerade as professionals in psychiatry and psychology, their own therapy stalls so they try to get their clients to do in therapy, what they have not got the courage to do in their own therapy/life.

 

[BoN-bOn]

It is nothing to do with being "popular" it is about being a competent professional who is capable to...

I’m sorry that you’ve been hurt. I truly am. It is unfair that not everyone is capabale of care & concern without hurting others or taking advantage of others. I’ve certainly been in plenty of situations where I’ve been taken advantage of because of my kind heart & sweet disposition. I’m just saying it isn’t always the case. Some people (including me) DO care about others without their own needs getting in the way. The only reward l receive is a smile on a patient’s face, even if it’s just for a moment. What I do for others has nothing to do with getting my own needs met, it’s because I care & have a love for people who are hurting or broken & that’s mostly because I’ve been broken myself. It certainly has nothing to do with “grooming” I’ve done nothing that needs to be reported & I’m not here to defend my work or ethical standards. Im smart & educated enough to decide when l can & cant go the extra mile for someone. l understand not everyone can decide that. Just like the people who were in positions of power when I was little couldn’t.

Again, I am so very sorry that you have been in these situations where you or someone you love has been hurt. l know that it can happen, I’ve seen it too & it saddens me. Sometimes I have more faith in humanity than I should, but it’s because I tend to see the good in the world rather than focus on all of the bad (& I have seen more than enough bad in my life). There is still good, & I hope one day you are lucky enough to cross paths & are able to open your heart to someone who genuinely cares about you without ulterior motives. l understand your concern. I do.

 

[Suzetig]

Some people (including me) DO care about others without their own needs getting in the way. The only reward l receive is a smile on a patient’s face, even if it’s just for a moment. What I do for others has nothing to do with getting my own needs met,

Can you see though that the smile on the patients face meets a need you have? I'm not saying it's a wrong need or an unhealthy need but it is a need of yours which helps motivate you to keep doing what you're doing, that helps you cope with the harder parts of your job role or brightens your day?

It's ok to have needs in our work, and for our work to meet those needs to some extent. The difference in therapy is that the relationship happens in private, between two people, one of whom is vulnerable and the relationship purely exists for the healing of the other person. It's an intimate, close, paid for relationship that literally wouldn't happen if the vulnerable person didn't need the help.

The therapist has lots of needs in their work. They need a steady income, they need to make enough to pay the bills, they need their work to be planned and predictable - can you see how those very real needs could easily result in a therapist fostering a dependency on the client to simply keep work ticking over. Before you even get to the abuse or manipulation of the relationship by either party.

As the paid professional it is the therapists job to maintain the boundaries that keep the client safe. There's a lot of debate about where boundaries should lie, what boundaries can be moved a bit and what are set in stone but it's for the therapist to know his or her mind on such matters and to be able to defend their decisions professionally. Basically they're the one who needs to keep their eye on the shore, which is hard to do if you don't even acknowledge you're in the water.

Most concerning therapy relationships start with a very well intended movement of the boundaries. I don't think that means boundaries should never be moved - my T does cross boundaries with me, but she has regular supervision with a third party and I know our work comes up for discussion because she'll the explore those boundaries with me openly and honestly. As long as there are checks and balances in place, boundary crossings can be very therapeutic; without, they can be deeply harmful.