News Weinstein & hollywood

[ms spock]

I think this is partially a matter of you not clearly understanding @Cyberluddite how a forum like this works, what a thread is, and how to get the support and knowledge that you want from the forum. So I have sent you are private message, with a list of suggestions for you. I tagged you in a few threads, and sent you the urls of how to learn how to be on the forum, so you can start to get what you need from the forum.

I would humbly suggest that you don't participate in this thread again, until you actually understand what is going on, you could do this by looking at the new member information.

 

[ms spock]

It's absolutely fine to gaslight me, I'm used to it (and nobody should be okay with being told "you don't know what you're talking about, shut up and GTFO", even if they didn't grow up in that kind of household.) But when the same woman who does it to me, then does it to another woman, that raises a i huge red flag for me.

I don't even understand most of what you have written above. But it does make me wonder. Do you know what hijacking a thread means? Is this one of the first times you have been on a forum, such as this? You are more than welcome to discuss your ideas in another thread, no one is stopping you from starting one.

Last night, I gave a lot of thought about this thread, trying to see if maybe I was missing something. If maybe I was misunderstanding what was being said; it sometimes happens when things get stressful in a conversation, I misread and misspeak.

You have a right to express your opinions in your own threads anyway you want to, but if you go onto another thread, then you are a guest on that thread, and you need to stick to the parameters of the opening poster's parameters. That means, you need to discuss what has been set up by the opening poster, if you have other things to say then it is time to start your own thread.

So you can start a thread and then people will respond. I would suggest that a thread about your Mother would be a place to start, if you felt up for it.

But in this case, I'm not so sure I misread the thread and I can't really apologize for my reacting to an enabler/handler who rightly dislikes Weinstein as much as most other people do. Betrayal never comes from your enemies, and the worst betrayal of all comes from your own gender.

So your (entirely justified) anger with your Mother is colouring your way of reading this thread. That is one thing you will learn with time how to tease out the issues, and work out which ones are best discussed where.

 

[ms spock]

I came here looking for guidance, and to learn how to manage my PTSD better.

Your symptoms can get worse when you come on this forum.

If you want guidance on how to learn to manage your PTSD better then you can start threads or a trauma diary about what it is you want to know, questions you want to ask, or to engage with other members.

And it's a bit overwhelming, but I'll manage it...

Your PTSD can flare up when you come on this forum, so hopefully you have some strategies and self care routines to fall back on to.

It's absolutely fine to gaslight me, I'm used to it

I am very confused by this comment, as I am experiencing what you are saying about Weinstein and his sexual assault of women as being a textbook case of gaslighting the whole thread. So I can only conclude that we must have very different views of what gaslighting is, and how it functions. I have to say though when you stand up and disclose your sexual abuse you get some definite firestorms of gaslighting.

So I am guessing that you are having a really hard time of it, that you haven't had much support over what happened with your Mother, and it is all over the place. Coming to a thread and trying to get support in a discussion (about the rape and sexual assault of women,) that is a thread that is not about Mothers, around your Mother is not going to give you any thing that you really need and want. It also comes across as highly disrespectful, and offensive to minimise sexual abuse as being on par with emotional abuse, though the sexual abuse can't occur for children unless there is some emotional neglect at the very least or damage to the attachment between the child and the parent/s.

Weinstein has through the use of institutional power, has systemically sexually harassed, criminally assaulted and raped women over a long period of time, it is completely not anywhere you are at this time. I suggest that you start your own threads. There are some of us that were sexually abused/and or raped for years and years - our Fathers were the Harvey Weinstein's of the film industry. I think once you learn about what a thread is and how to stay on topic in a thread (something I was terribly poor at when I first joined the forum) you might get more of the support and insight that you need and want.

 

[ms spock]

Oh, wow, didn't realize you had such a big problem with me. Put me on ignore then.

You are right @EveHarrington that putting a troll on ignore is generally the best way to go, but in this instance I respectfully disagree.

I clearly stated that most of the time you are correct @EveHarrington, the thing is to put a troll on ignore, so if you read what I wrote to you, in my post you will actually see I wrote that you are right. The exception, that I was attempting to bring to your attention, from my point of view, is that these attitudes and opinions enable the lived practice of sexually abusing women and children, and thus this was one time not to put the "troll" (or person expressing opinions which minimise the actual lived experience of rape) on ignore. I cannot see in my post, at any point, me saying that I have "a big problem with you".

And I think that it is possible that this person is not a troll but someone who doesn't understand what a thread is, and what the forum does. The name Cyberluddite could have been a clue I picked up earlier, but I didn't.

My point still stands as it's useless to argue with trolls whose sole purpose is to rile people up. Arguing with them gets you nowhere, but it gets them off.

Once again I respectfully disagree @EveHarrington, whilst I respect your decision to put the "troll" on ignore, that is not an option for me, as I believe addressing these issues are very important in order to attempt to prevent the intergenerational transmission of the trauma of child sexual assault and the rape of women. Women who have been sexually abused as children, are more likely to be raped as adults, as they don't have a feeling of what is safe, and what is not safe.

I found it offensive when I was 15, and I find it offensive now, that any discussion of my being raped or other women stepping forward to talk about their rapes has this thread of minismation of those experiences interwoven with so many women are as bad/worse than men. So the actual lived experiences ... To even get to have a space to discuss your lived experiences of sexual abuse you have to wade through all this other stuff, which has nothing to do with the rapes, and attempted rapes.

If you reread my post you will see I am offended by the minimisation of my actually lived experience of rape, which wakes me with nightmares each night. Which mean I was having panic attacks before going to bed last night, and ended up eating half a cake. So you may have mistaken my comment about the offense that the minimization of the lived experience of rape - this was not directed at you. I would usually put these comments in different posts so the content is clear of whom I am speaking to, but I have had posts deleted with a lot of content recently so I have to put them all in one comment now, or get deleted again. But please be clear @EveHarrington I have no big problems with you in any way.

You are right @EveHarrington that putting a troll on ignore is generally the best way to go, but in this instance I respectfully disagree. Simply put you can't put society and it's inherent rape culture on ignore.

I support your right to put on ignore, whomever you would like, I am just explaining so you have a frame of reference to understand why I am not doing that.

Similarily I can't put my family on ignore. I couldn't put my school on ignore. I can't put the police on ignore. I can't put the media on ignore. I can't put the last guy that tried to set me up to rape me on ignore. I can't put my whole family that minimises my 15 years of sexual abuse on ignore -well I kind of do, but the constant nightmares shows I am not so able to ignore it - the emotional flashbacks and the panic attacks shows that the ignore doesn't really work. And if you do put things on ignore and you don't speak up at the time - and you speak up later, then you are either a lying, scheming, manipulative bitch out to destroy a really, really good and nice bloke's reputation or you have false memory syndrome - even when your Father was convicted and sentenced for two years for sexually abusing you as a child. That is just "the court's opinion" and if they knew what a nice, decent bloke that he is, then they would know that they made a mistake.

And the above of my post went into detail why I don't believe, for me, putting someone on ignore is a good idea. I see it differently from you, I see that there is purpose in answering these types of comments. I totally accept that this is not your path, however it is my path.

And if rape culture makes an incursion into your world - you definitely can't put that on ignore. Just as when I was a child, when my Father was getting ready to rape me. I couldn't put him on ignore either. I have witnessed over 30 years of these types of discussions, and there is always someone standing up for male victims, or the good blokes such decent blokes that get falsely accused.

So to me, I don't take on every fight, but every now and then I will stand up for what is relevant for me to speak about.

The apologists for rape culture, or those that derail dialogues such as these, must be challenged, otherwise the intergenerational transmission of trauma and rape culture just continues... You have to stand up to rape culture, when you can, some days I do withdraw, but during my lifetime there has been no space and time to put rape culture on ignore.

So everyone has different ways of dealing with situations like this, this is my way of dealing with it, and everyone is welcome to make their own choices, just as I am free to make my own choices, just like you are free to make your own choices. This certainly doesn't mean I have a problem with someone who makes difference choices from myself.

 

[ms spock]

I understand your concerns, @Disco Dancing Queen however there are women who are supporting Weinstein and attacking other women.

I think a clearer comment might be that you are puzzled by the reality that some women may appear to be supporting Weinstein?

And I ask what proof do you have of this?

When I googled "women supporting weinstein", nothing came about about actual women supporting Weinstein and the women who were attacking other women weren't to be seen, but a lot came up about the need to support women disclosing their rape or attempted rape, or sexual assault about Weinstein.

Have any women actually gone on public record supporting him? Because I haven't seen any of that at all. The women who say they didn't know about it are speaking up and sending their commiserations, and stating that such behaviour is intolerable. One example is Jennifer Lawrence who said:

“I worked with Harvey five years ago and I did not experience any form of harassment personally, nor did I know about any of these allegations,” she continued. “This kind of abuse is inexcusable and absolutely upsetting.” Dead Link Removed

I have seen him being kicked out of an organisation. I have seen more women speaking out in support of other women speaking up about systemic sexual predation, like Pink. I have seen a longer and longer of list of both women and men condemning his behaviours.

Pink says women have each other's support over Weinstein

Dead Link Removed

How can women emulate and enable the very thing they claim to stand against?

So currently I can see no evidence that any women are emulating the rape of Harvey Weinstein. I do know that for my Mother when I was being sexually abused by my Mother, my Father was not raping or bashing her up, so some women enable sexual abuse of their offspring in order to protect themselves or deflect the violence from themselves. A lot of women don't stand against rape, as if they push it out of their minds then they can ward off the pain of that experience.

So emulating/enabling is called survival. My great aunts were angry with me for disclosing my sexual abuse, as one said, it happened to us, why does she have to speak out about it? The other raped women in the family viciously attacked me because if I speak up about rape, there could be more rape, and so I must be silenced. This is called "Blaming the Victim" it is an integral part of rape culture.

It is quite easy to support men who are sexually abusive, it is embedded in our culture, it is embedded in rape culture, in fact if women won't do this the sexual predator will move on to greener pastures. But often men have so much power that the victims don't speak up. 85% of rapes are not reported, and after my own experiences I totally understand why.

It is quite easy to support and be social with a man that raped you, I had to do it every day for the first 15 years of my life. I had to do it in my home, at school, at school BBQs, at the church, with the extended family, at sporting events, whilst shopping, out in the street, in every situation imaginable. And it is easy to be coerced to appear to support a sexual predator or rapist, especially if you were sexually abused and scapegoated from an early, if you were groomed by your own Father in to those behaviours. Have you heard of Stockholm syndrome? In some families the sexual predator Father will only sexually abuse say two of the children, so the others, quite honestly can say that he never touched me, sexual predators use very distinct types of strategies to rule and divide not only the women but all the people around there. In a lot of families there will often be one child/young person who "discloses", the other children deny it if they are still living with the Father, but 20 or 30 years later they all discuss their sexual abuse. People who are traumatised do many maladaptive things to try and cope the best that they can over the years. To my way of understanding this logic is really related to black and white thinking. I didn't get that you are not understanding nuances. You could do some research on this to help you understand what is going on.

Many men are speaking out against Weinstein. Here is just one...
Dead Link Removed

 

[Deleted member 541]

The whole thing makes me sick. I’m glad that women are now speaking out. I’m glad that they have found their voice. I’m glad that these pigs will now pay for what they’ve done.

Hopefully now, MORE women in relationships, marriages and jobs will all speak out when a pig does this shit.

 

[Teasel]

More than 50 reports against Weinstein.

More than 200 women have contacted the LA Times to accuse James Toback of harassment.

Terry Richardson - has been dropped by various fashion houses and publishing companies after years of reports of coercion into performing sex acts on him.

 

[ms spock]

It is really interesting that women are feeling able to speak out about this now. I wonder what the impetus for that is? I think that they are all tremendously brave women

 

[Teasel]

I'm guessing some contributing factors are all the accusations and court cases that have been in the news these past few decades.
I'm guessing the rise of the Internet and less centraliased power of the media. And therefore more opportunities for women to have their say?

At the end of this article on there being an increase in calls to Rainn of 21% there is talk of a couple apps designed to help victims of abusers. Interesting

 

[ms spock]

Those are good points @Bearlinda. I guess I am so disappointed that we are still at this stage. I would have thought in 1985 that we were a bit past this side of things by now. But it is what it is. Tiny small steps of progress are still steps of progress.

 

[Sideways]

There’s a degree of safety you get coming forward once you know someone else has already reported the same abuse you went through. If someone else is prepared to go first, and you see their story being accepted and acted upon, suddenly you have a chance to be taken seriously as well.

That’s certainly why I ended up reporting to the Royal Commission. So many other people had come forward and not been publicly shot down for it, it made it less scary to join the crowd than come out alone.

 

[ms spock]

That is immensely brave to report to the Royal Commission @Ragdoll Circus. Much respect. Still that is not easy, even in your particular situation, with that particular backdrop.