Guilt

[Powder]

Does it seem that more than average guilt is experienced in PTSD? Guilt and shame are two different things, but they seem to be closely related on the "emotion wheel." Both seem to haunt the PTSD survivor in some form. This is not a DSM thing but rather a clinical observation of therapists as stated online. So not a fact based on studies that I am aware of yet.

Have you looked at your emotional life and found that there is a lot of unhelpful guilt there? Or feeling burdened to do things you don't want to do for the benefit of others? I call this guilt, but it may be yet another offshoot, call it "taking on responsibility for others."

I do not say you have to come from a dysfunctional family to go through this with PTSD, but I'm sure that it did add to this old pattern.

 

[BlueDream]

I believe my mom used guilt as a way to control me. She has done a pretty good job for years. I really try to make an effort when I'm feeling guilty to find the source, and sort through it.

I also carried a lot of guilt most of my life for being raped as a child. I always thought it was my fault, and of course the shame was right there front and center, just waiting for someone to find out, and blame me.

 

[sun seeker]

Have you looked at your emotional life and found that there is a lot of unhelpful guilt there?

Definitely. In my case the out-of-proportion guilt was implanted on purpose to screw up my mind.

I think people with PTSD who don't have that history still feel disproportionate amounts of guilt. It makes sense. If we feel guilty about something that traumatized us, it says we had some control over the trauma, could have prevented it, gotten away sooner, deserved it because we are horrible people, or whatever. It's easier to feel that than to admit we had no control and feel the helplessness that comes with that admission. When we do, though, that's when we can start processing the trauma and healing.

 

[Friday]

Well there's Survivors guilt, Not-there-in-time-guilt, Not-enough-time-guilt, Not-prepared-guilt, Not-good-enough-guilt, My-actual-fault-guilt, My-appropriated-fault-guilt, Wasn't-there-guilt, Useless-guilt... List goes on. Although shame snuggles up with more than a few of them, they are distinct creatures.

That's all just me-stuff, though. No idea how it relates to PTSD as a whole, or even my own, specifically.

 

[Tinyflame]

Do you ever wonder if it predisposes to ptsd? Support seems to be a protective factor (conversely), but that often involves disclosure, guilt reduction. But no support (not telling) or being told you shouldn't be, could involve the tendency to internalize guilt.

Even in, for example, natural disasters, there could be the forms of guilt @FridayJones mentioned.

The VA had a document that had the person apportion blame. I think that works better. It's not denying it, but it's in more realistic proportions.

 

[Powder]

I working on dealing with the guilt in my emotional life. It's a big demon. Just now realizing how it's feeding off me and actually hurting my life more than I thought.

 

[Eleanor]

Some random observations about guilt and shame. These are emotions that have certain kinds of "cognitive" content and are aimed a certain way.

Shame is, properly, a feeling of detachment from oneself. It is part of the PANIC system (if I have it right) So it is about not being attached to oneself and feeling like you are not acceptable to others whom you need to be safe.

Guilt is, properly, a feeling of regret over having done harm to another. It is part of the PLAY or CARE systems. So we feel guilty if we don't take care of others adequately or injure them (Hence @FridayJones' typology) We are guilty in two ways, when we are "out of bounds" in our actions, or else when we fail at caring for others' well being.

The cure for guilt is remediation and a plan to avoid similar happenings in the future. Healthy guilt is short lived and directed to something specific. Pathological guilt... is a different story. Is that what you are struggling with @Muse ?

Shame is harder to address, but the obvious antidote is self-acceptance and self-compassion. Which is incredibly hard to muster if one was neglected/abused by one's primary caretakers as a child as one may have internalized their feelings as one's own. Still the point is to unlearn that habitual feeling and replace it with self-acceptance and self-compassion, and in the end, self love.

End of lecture. :geek:

 

[Powder]

I feel false guilt. Over and over as a habit. As you said, to unlearn it is the key.

 

[Eleanor]

So. Habits we understand, right @Muse? You know how to break them?

 

[Powder]

I feel guilt for stopping my mom drowning my little sister, and I. I attacked my mom and subdued her by putting her in enough pain to give up.

I saved us for a hard life. She's tried to kill herself many times. We both have nothing more than the victory of surviving another day. We are in constant pain. I don't know if I did a good thing. I know it will always be seen as somehow the right choice or heroic. But maybe it wasn't.


Because I know that when people refuse to remember they "re-enact" the past in an unconscious way. She has attempted to drown herself and was hospitalized for several weeks.

It hurts that she believes I tried to drown her. She only remembers me screaming and pulling on her and fighting my mom, and she either displaced the real attacker because it is less scary if it's her kid sis and not her mom, or she needs to believe it was me. I'm the scapegoat. She is emotionally abusive to me. Because it helps her with her pain in her sick way.

I gave her a chance to live and I don't call her life living. We're nearly 40 and I don't know if she's going to survive the original drowning or if I only bought her a few decades of misery, fear, and pain until she finishes the job. I live in guilt for not really saving her.

I don't want to see her. I love her, but I can't stand even thinking about her.

 

[Powder]

In short, PTSD often includes an "I should have done more" kind of survival guilt.

I guess it's a specific story of that general theme. I know that I did what I could then, and since then, I tried. It wasn't enough to make me feel like it was enough.

At this time, I refuse to be involved with her. If she wants to be connected to the sickos, I cannot be part of her life. I'm tired of saving her and taking the blame from her so she can exact payments from the abusers and try to come out feeling like she got something in exchange for all her pain. I am aware that hurt people, hurt people, and can feel justified if they are not in recovery.

She thinks its justifiable to hurt me, she says so with her actions, but it is not. I did a lot for her that she did not do for me. She thinks she loves me, and maybe she does, but I don't want the terms.