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I agree about personal responsibility completely, but that doesn't apply to all situations.
There is such a thing as innocent victims. The abusers no doubt have their own story, probably one equally full of pain.
Maybe in the end and if you knew the sum total of everyone's stories, nobody would be to blame.
But the buck has to stop somewhere - As far as I am capable I try to makd the buck stop with me in my life.
I have no respect for those who take their pain out willy nilly on everyone. And I don't feel the victims of such people should carry the blame.
But as I write that. I'm thinking about how pain is contagious, and I have felt the urge myself to make someone else feel like I did @lostforgottensoul said it right. I guess iin reality we need to be compassionate to each other and at the same time look look after ourselves and be aware.
Well I seem to have come full circle almost!!
Thanks for the interesting discussion!
Remember that you are grouping "takers" and "abusers" into one group and that isnt always the case. Are all abusers takers? Id say yes. Are all takers abusers? Nope.
One of my neighbors borrows money from my step mom. She never pays it back. She asks for rides all the time to places and never offers gas money. In the orginal post's decription, thats a "taker". But this neighbor is a very sweet person whom has been im my apartment to clean it when neither one of us can physically. She has taken my dog for a run. She is in no way an abuser and has a child and is a great mother. She has taken advantage of my step mom and my dad
Its not cut and dry and black and white at all. Abusers have their own catigory.
1) A major characteristic of a taker and this is key, they attempt above all to get you emotional. Where emotion is present, there will be no logic. Once they get you emotional, you belong to them. They will use and abuse you over and over until you wake up and smell the roses.
2) They will use something that they know you hold near and dear and toy with you. For instance, if they know you like to see them, they will stay away and not contact you. Then they will come to see you if you have something for them.....I.E. Money, a possession.....anything. They will not come to see you unless they know you are going to give up something.....
4) Many will set themselves up as the victim of someone. If they can get you to believe that someone that you know and love or like is hurting them, they will do so. In doing so, they can force you to turn against someone and thus limit your social circle of influence, thereby increasing their power over you.....
5) At the moment you figure out their game and call them on it, you are no longer of use to them. They will discard of you like a soiled wad of toilet paper. I have more characteristics of these creatures, but I have to wash the freaking dishes and I am having a brain fart. When I think of more, I will post them.
By this discription im a "taker" though by all accounts im a "giver".
I do leave and isolate from people. Its due to fear in general and fear of abandonment but they dont know that. If im in dire straights and have no other choice then i may come out of isolation to ask for something.
I am a victim abuse & torture that no one believes and a victim of my family though no one believes that so I have tried to uncover my family's crap. In doing so my step mom has turn against a lot of them but that is her choice and didnt ask her to.
I get a lot of people emotional with my blind rage explosions and logic is absent in it. No one "belongs to me".
I have been accused of manipulating though I dont know how to manipulate someone on purpose. Gaslighting which I still dont fully understand. Taking advantage of people when thats the last thing from my mind. Making people intentionally emotional to take advantage of them and again that couldnt be further from the truth.
There are other examples that you discribed me as a "taker" when im not. Im one of the biggest "givers" I know. But you also called someone like myself evil, a creature, and one to be avoided like a plauge. That makes me sad!
Many will set themselves up as the victim of someone. If they can get you to believe that someone that you know and love or like is hurting them, they will do so. In doing so, they can force you to turn against someone and thus limit your social circle of influence, thereby increasing their power over you..
No one can force you, as an adult, to do anything (unless being held against your will). You choose to do it. And what if that person is a victim of someone and therefore only telling you the truth? If you turn against the other one or not is your choice.
By your discription they are assholes but evil looks very VERY differently!
Evil is someone that gets pleasure from hurting you physically.
Evil is someone that gets pleasure out of slowly killing an animal by cutting its throat and slowly draining its blood to later drink the blood and use it inside of sex.
Evil is someone that locks you inside a very small hall closet for days without food or water.
Evil is someone that uses punishments when you dont comply such as cutting you down there, holding your head under water until you almost or do pass out, chaining to a wall and kicking you and other stuff, amoung many others
Evil is someone that puts boiling hot water or bleach or other burning chemicals inside of you.
Evil is someone that chains you by your neck to a wall forcing you to eat dog food and your own vomitt.
Evil is someone that forces you at 12 yrs old to prostitute and punish you by said ways or other ways if you dont bring in that right amount of money.
Evil is someone that ties you to a bed by your hands and feet and do an incredablly painful ritual on you and/or allows 40 men to have sex with you back to back until you cannot walk and then laugh about the fact you cannot walk, gains pleasure from it.
Evil is someone whom urinates on you, deficates on it, and does it on the bathroom floor and make you kneel in it to clean it with only small rag.
Evil is someone that gains sexual pleasure at showing you video and pictures of someone's murder.
Evil is someone that does all the above and more but makes you believe they are in love with you.
I could go on but thats evil. NOT what you are discribing. What you are discribing is an ass but not evil. Not by a long shot and not even necessarly abusers or someone that needa to be avoided.
Sorry about the long post. I hope I used the spoiler enough to shorten it.
I will leave you will that one should be careful of the termology used to discribe another, and what catigory we are putting them in that is actually incorrect. Nothing is black & white.
ETA: Also remember that a "taker" can be a victim of abuse (thus a victim) and know no other way to be. We should not avoid them. We should have good strict boundries but we should love them. I remember you posting about the recent shootings (though you missed Orlando). This counters that and promotes hatred. Yes we need to be careful of being taken advantage of and the company we keep but this just promotes hate in my opinion.
Anyone who takes advantage of another human being for their own personal gain is a taker. Period....end of conversation. Thanks to everyone for their wonderful, heart felt responses. I really appreciate it.
that is a great explanation. A 22 yr marriage, 3 yrs total of letting them live here and all those before. Been going through a rough time peeling away the layers.
@dejayb someone evil can be a taker (a psycopath whom kills can be this "taker" thats being described) but someone that is a "taker" isnt evil and the line isnt fine. A "taker" isnt the same as a abuser either. A "taker" could actually be a wonderful person.
A "taker" isnt the same as an abuser and a "taker" isnt the same as someone evil; however evil people such as psyco paths usually are but arent always "takers" and abusers can be a "taker".
Terms for people are very important and I personally try not to put people into groups like "takers" as it is no way near that black & white!
When you see evil, you understand that there is a huge difference. Huge!
I would like to thank everyone for their expressions and opinions.
When I have calmer moments I find that I have to agree with practically everything everyone has said.
And......wisely, my first posting on this thread did need a little clarifying.
Though I would like to point out to some of the avid definitionist's and definitionista's (probably not words) that to some of us on this thread, at least me anyway, when under the acute attack of a malignant, narcissistic control freak with ASPD defining this and defining that is kind of like complaining that the toilet paper roll is on upside down in the Titanic's bathroom just as it is sinking under the water. I have bigger issues at the moment. Four of those in my boat are dead, a dozen or more crippled, and I am under attack - even as I seek a safer environ. There are other issues and innocent people involved still. My sanity and my temperament are not always safe and secure. That being said, prayers, suggestions, hugs gladly accepted. Returned with interest if ever possible.
The legal system is flawed. People can really suck. I am working on solutions. It ain't easy.
@GrayOwl
I feel similar. But I kept thinking about this thread and in my case shades of grey is what led me deeper into a pretty dark dungeon. Seeing things from all angles, excusing early signs of weirdness, trying to be nonjudgmental.
All good things to do, but I have learned to see things as they are and call them as such.
I know that's not the ultimate truth, but what is? Everyone here is here for a huge range of reasons.
I trusted a "taker" and learned the hard way. I see the shades of grey, but experience has taught me not to trust them.
But that's not how it is for others and that is ok!
We are all coming from our own experiences. In my life I have come to be wary of the first signs of a person who has no respect for others - yes, even the simple borrowing and not returning - as stringent and over the top as that may seem!
You either do or you don't respect the rights of others, and even at my lowest point that was a line id rather kills myself than cross.
And I had good reason to cross it.
So - there no grey shades for me
I know evil and I've suffered from abuse from these people . A few have taken advantage of me and taken away alot from me , physically, emotionally, etc. What ever you call them , it's still the same thing
