Are The Majority Of Therapists Crazy?

[Epi]

Ok, my turn (this is lostforgottonsoul), i had 4 free horrible counselors. I was forced into therapy, referred to my psychratrist office, asked for a male therapist, my therapist was, at the time, the only male in the group. So i happened on a therapist that is well trained & qualified to work with a cult survivior. I happened upon one of the golden apples in the field. And my arguement is he is the best in his field (the one that saw me at $62.50 for months so i could still see him every week).

Not sure how or why this thread U-Turned from "therapists are crazy" to arguing if therapists make a lot of money. But I dont ask my doctor, my surgeon, or anyone if they make enough to pay off their car, live in a nice house, have debt or student loans to pay. Why would I care? It doesnt make or break any Dr so why would I care about that?

My therapist has a nice house (not overly huge but nice), has a nice car, etc but my therapist is 60, Im sure his student loans are long paid and if i were to venture a guess it was paid inside the 20 yrs he worked as a therapist inside a drug rehab. which was done at his younger ages.

But if he was struggling, it would not take away his experience with cult survivors, and his EIGHT college degrees, and his qualifications to work with a very complicated and slow going, and repetitive, case such as I. It would not change that he very much cares. It would not change his very sweet happy nature, soothing voice, and absolute knowledge he has. Money changes none of that.

There was a time that my therapist suffered with anxiety. Therapists arent super human and have human issues like the rest of us.

I know a great deal about my therapist because part of my therapy he told me and shared more then most.

The generalizations that 'most therapists are coo coo for cocopuffs' is just wrong. Sorry but i lean on Ragdoll's side of this (sorry coco9). Generalizations in general are normally wrong. This one is no different.

Refering people to therapists on here aside, it is just wrong. Some are, most arent. Just like with anything, some bad apples dont spoil the entire field. It is the client's responsibilty to ask for qualifications, ask questions, and leave and find another if it isnt a good fit. Just like you would a GP, MD, or any Dr. Would you let a quacky surgeon cut you open? I wouldnt. Id go to another. Get a 2nd opinion. And if i did let a quack cut me open and they did something wrong, its partially my fault for not going to another surgeon when i saw they were quacky (if i saw they were quacky).

This thread is, to me, saying "i went to a bad therapist so they are all bad" and that is just simply wrong.

 

[Ogaw]

Is it crazy to be paid to sit, listen and pretend to care? Nope. It's downright scandalous and manipulative. Yes I wrote pretend, because that's what they're doing, at the end of the day, it's just. a. job.

I learned this the hard way.

It's true the requirements for being a counsellor can be really low - and still some not so highly educated counsellors are amazing - and some are not.
And yes, of course they are human beings and suffer like the rest of us!

When seeking a counselor or therapist, ask for credentials at very least. Know their education. They should have at least a masters degree. If they do not have a masters and have passed the national exam, they can NOT be licensed in the state they practice. This does not guarantee a good T, but at least they are educated, trained and the likelihood is greater that they will be competent and meet your expectations.

I agree with others that everyone on here needs help from T's and it is not useful to bash the profession this way, may make others feel hopeless among other things. There could be positive information on this thread just as a similar thread about Worst Therapist Experience. I see this one as non productive in reasoning.

 

[Banovec]

I've had 1 out of 4 really weak psychiatrists - others might call him (weak one) crooked for big pharma $ based on how he handled me. I'd just say, weak. Not too caring or careful or invested. Started me on samples for a drug still under patent, it got very expensive for me very fast. But the other 3 have been great.

I've had 2 out of six bad therapists. One wasn't at all a good fit but she misrepresented herself over the first four sessions, so took me awhile to know what was up. The other was a straight psychoanalyst. Very bad style for me. But she made it incredibly difficult to leave (threatened hospitalization) and when I simply wrote and terminated, she said she did not accept that and continued billing me for appointments I never even scheduled, based on..stubbornness? Until I finally just paid it, because I couldn't handle dealing with the legal side. A lot of money.

The other four were a spectrum from very good but not trained enough for what I realized I needed, to excellent for my needs.

Every time I had to find a new care provider I brought forward what I'd learned previously. That doesn't mean they all got progressively better - there's still an up and down to it.

But it's a two way street. You learn to look more effectively, you take the search as slow as you need, you ask questions up front that you hadn't known to ask before....it's hard to invest in the process when you're ill. I get that.

When you are on numbers three, four, five - if you are still ending up with bad matches - then you've got to change how you are going about it.

And it's not about going to the most expensive one or the cheapest one or anything. You get the right fit sometimes in the strangest places.

In the US, you can know something about the number of hours they've spent getting trained and licensed, and you can know where they did those hours just by looking at their letters and asking for their bio. Pretty straightforward.

 

[Ihakem]

I've had 1 out of 4 really weak psychiatrists - others might call him (weak one) crooked for big pharma $ based on how...

That was a very informed and balanced response to the topic.

It seemed to be see- sawing back and forth between those who felt a little worshipful of all in that profession .....to people who thought they were dubiously motivated over chargers .

This is Coco9, whoever you are, you did what I was trying to do, but definitely much better!

My only excuse is that it was 2 am for me, but probably I would have just done the same thing earlier & without 4 shots of Zzzquil.

I have a really hard time avoiding looking like Im arguing!

 

[Bafof]

When seeking a counselor or therapist, ask for credentials at very least. Know their education. They should have at least a masters degree. If they do not have a masters and have passed the national exam, they can NOT be licensed in the state they practice. This does not guarantee a good T, but at least they are educated, trained and the likelihood is greater that they will be competent and meet your expectations.

In the US, you can know something about the number of hours they've spent getting trained and licensed, and you can know where they did those hours just by looking at their letters and asking for their bio. Pretty straightforward.

The worst/craziest therapists I had, the one that inspired this post, had a masters degree and is licensed. The last time I checked, advanced degrees aren't a cure for mental illness.

 

[Ucis]

The worst/craziest therapists I had, the one that inspired this post, had a masters degree and is licensed. The last tim...

I was going to say something about that too.Coco here again.

I've said it before and I'll say it again I guess, psychiatrists that are older and have been in their careers at least 20 years are the ones that usually end up with the shocking allegations of bizarre behavior with clients.

Its just about using common sense isnt it?
When you hire a lawyer you feel your life is on the line and you're paying a fortune also.
People either loathe or love their attorneys most of the time.

Its a power position that takes a lot of your income to maintain, if you don't do it you might not be alright, but when you do you're taking a risk.

Basically, credentials dont matter at all, they prove nothing about the person except that they trudged through a lot of school for reasons that may have nothing to do you and is actually about their own parents!

Just keep looking until you find your match

 

[Bememi]

If the one that inspired this post is a licensed therapist, you can file a formal complaint with that licensing board. If they cause such damage, they need to be reported to prevent them from harming others. Either way, if they are deliberate or ignorant to causing harm, it is important for you to be specific if you decide to file a complaint.

I neither worship therapist or hate them. I know there are some pretty bad ones even with the best of intentions. There are more that work hard to do good for their clients, and when they are deliberate or even overwhelmed, they need to step back and the licensing board helps to see that happens. Not a perfect system but all we have.

 

[Fukik]

Basically, credentials dont matter at all, they prove nothing about the person except that they trudged through a lot of school for reasons that may have nothing to do you and is actually about their own parents!

Just keep looking until you find your match

If credentials don't matter at all except they completed school for ulterior motive, then why hire an attorney ever, you can represent yourself, right? Why have a real Dr. to treat you physically? They are just credentials.
Personally, I think I will hire a person with a JD when I need a lawyer, seek medical care from a real dr., and will seek someone educated in the field for therapy.

I know an oncologist with cancer though, and he doesn't even treat himself. He sought the best oncologist he could find. He did however recognize the seriousness of his cancer better than the average Joe.

 

[Oho]

If credentials don't matter at all except they completed school for ulterior motive, then why hire an attorney ever, you...

Oh for Gods sake, really?!

Everyone goes to college for reasons just like reasons for not going at all.

"Ulterior motives". Yeah, like having no financial worries about paying for degrees or living expenses while you do it.......
or because your dad thinks your job is silly because he's not the therapy type and thinks you're a pussy, so you feel that MA degree makes it solidly respectable.

There are a lot of MOTIVES behind ones career choice.

Calling it ULTERIOR MOTIVES WITH THE INTENT TO BE INCOMPETENT OR UNHELPFUL....

that is just totally stupid. Thats why this thread became a runaway train in the first place.

Do you not have any experience in your life where you knew people in these professions privately and recognized their strengths and weaknesses and that they were carrying over into their job?

Every week I see some asshole with a law degree totally f*ck something up and I cant tell you how many times I find out that they went to Law school to prove something to someone. usually their dad, and eventually find out they got through Stanford or Berkely thanks to crystal meth.

Guess how many have medical marijuana cards and think its funny to be high in court?
Guess how many of those are multiple degree holders that did postgraduate at Harvard or Oxford?

Yeah!!! Thats right. More of them than people from moderate educational backgrounds. Do you know how I know? I have to hang out with them, thats why.

The fact of the matter is this:

Credentials do not guarantee competence, but they do guarantee higher charges.

No one has said that people are getting degrees to go mess with innocent people for fun.

The training they get is only as effective as the person trained is able, willing and effective at applying his training.

 

[Igis]

^^^^^^ I was speaking of the ulterior motives of the original poster.
Everyone does something for a living, college or not, that is irrelevant.
Expecting quality therapy service from an uneducated person is ridiculous and we should not even have to mention, but another poster pointed out that there are tons of psych jobs available with 5 hrs of training among other examples.

All professions have good and bad people in the field. Every medical school class has some who barely make it, and those at the top of the class. Some at the bottom end up being a great dr as they have to work harder, may have better bedside manner, or other reasons.

I agree with you about people in general I think. I don't disagree with the point you just made, with the exception below. I am not saying that an education ensures competency, but obviously there are some people here that believe that getting counseling from someone without an education is going to pan out well...Im saying that is probably not a good idea.

The OP of this thread said they started the post due to a therapist with a masters and licensed, and they enjoyed just messing with their heads (if you read the post about their definition of crazy).

Every week I see a lot of assholes too, and they know no boundaries in race, religion, profession, education, economic, gender...they come with credentials too, but credentials do matter.

I think everyone has gotten a little touchy here, myself included. When seeking any service, I am going to narrow my search to those with good credential, then weed out the assholes.

 

[Upoj]

^^^^^^ I was speaking of the ulterior motives of the original poster.
Everyone does something for a living, college or no...

Well, that makes a lot of sense to me.

One of the irritating things on this anonymous forum is you cant tell who's replying to which post most of the time. I keep thinking Im talking to someone new, then get mad that they dont understand me.

The 5 hour training and no credential idea is a really bad one also, I certainly dont want to appear to advocate that one.

In my real life I often have my ideas typed up for me while I bark them out while Im pissed off. For the most part I only come up with good plans when Im mildly outraged.

Then I go over it and pluck out whats useful for the final draft.

This forum has been a real eye opener about my thinking habits, not to mention the loss of my ability to type with punctuation and grammar .

Anyway, I should have just said this in the first place, I have a friend who's a retired medical doctor. He went to Harvard and graduated with a law degree, then decided that he didnt want to be an attorney. He then went to Oxford and back to Harvard for medical school.

When people ask him about himself and discover this, if they look impressed
he always smiles and says -

" all that means is that my family was well off and I was an excellent student.
For all you know, I would have failed as a lawyer and became a mediocre physician."

I totally agree that its just common sense and trusting your instincts if someone isnt right for you, no matter whats on their business card.

 

[Jese]

The last time I checked, advanced degrees aren't a Cure for mental illness.

No - that's why I (banovec) said you need to actually understand the difference between an LCPC and an LCSW and an LSW and all the rest; then you need to look at what they actually did their clinical hours in, and how that relates (or does not) to what you need.

When they graduated and how long ago. Where they went to school - is it a good program, or a bottom-tier program? Pay-to-play, or based on merit?

Therapist A:
I did my undergrad in psych, and gone ahead for my MSW because that was what I had set out to do, and I liked helping people. I do my supervised hours almost entirely in private practice, and end up as a LPC or LMHC (licensed professional counselor/licensed mental health counselor) without having done any meaningful clinical work - no hospital rotation, no group training, no crisis training beyond a class or two during my MSW...but, I could say that PTSD is a condition I can treat. Legally, that would be true. Heck, maybe I think I'm especially good at it. Maybe I did all my real training in my 20s, and I'm 50 now. I haven't really developed my training over those years, but I'm very confident in my skills. I'm a good therapist for a certain kind of person.

Therapist B:
I spent a few years in a commercial financial field, decided that I didn't like the way my life was going, gotten into therapy, realized I liked being in groups and talking with others about their problems, thought about it, researched it, and decided to go for a top MSW program in a city with exciting practicum opportunities. I could discover over the course of my education that I wanted to specialize in crisis intervention, and designed all my LSCW hours towards that goal; worked in prisons, hospitals, crisis centers, added certification in EMDR, and go into private practice with an eye towards running a group practice. 10 years later, I could be in my 40s, have a pretty great career: a growing business, clients I like, and between my spouse and myself, have enough income to comfortably raise two children, and be doing work that I believe is meaningful in the world. I'm a good trauma therapist.

The only difference between those two scenarios is in the license hours - the LCSW has 1,000 more hours of supervised clinical experience; that's specifically in the state I knew both these practitioners in. It varies state to state; it's not hard to look up.

But their bios are really different. They have different career goals, got into it differently, the whole nine yards.

So, no - you can't just go by the letters.

But you also can't say that it's not possible to learn a whole lot about a practitioner based on where they got those letters, how they've chosen to use them.

It's not a magic trick. It's just looking at who they are.

I worked with both therapists. Therapist A talked a really, really good game, and I didn't quite know how to weigh her claims on years of experience vs. training types. She was very charismatic, and she took my insurance. I learned I wasn't that comfortable with a woman a generation above me, and she was a lot of talk, more spirituality than I'd anticipated, and not so helpful. We didn't click. I was angry, actually, that she wasn't more forthright - but I'm not sure that she's that self-aware, to be honest.

Therapist B is my current therapist, and although we have our rough spots, I am receiving excellent trauma therapy and his crisis skills are invaluable to me. I'm more comfortable working with a man, and he's in my generation. He's also ambitious, but in a way I appreciate - and that's a quality that I've since learned is on my list of qualities I like to look for.

I don't mean to sound preachy here, but sometimes it seems like people have a chip on their shoulder about the money, or the degrees, or whatnot. But if you do some learning about what a spectrum of people are out there doing this, and you narrow your list, and read their bio, and have a list of questions for a first phone call...and not be afraid to understand that this is a service you are looking for, and you've got the right to feel good about who you are hiring.

And there will always be bad apples. But I think many people could cut down on the number of bad apples they go through just by reading threads like this one, say. Asking questions. Learning. Getting as specific as they can. Not becoming seduced by generalities, like 'majority of therapists are sick themselves', or 'all psychiatrists are corrupt', or 'therapists are angels, each and every one'. But that's not usually the problem people have with finding mental health practitioners. It's more along the lines of the horror stories. Not everything's a horror story, that's all.