News New Term: Completed Suicide Vs. Comitted Suicide

[Deleted member 541]

Political correctness is just causing more issues when it was supposed to do the opposite. Dead is dead, I don't care if a person died from old age, car accident, drug overdose or suicide. The person is dead. Why are people having discussions over "committed" vs "completed" when in the end the person is DEAD!!!!!

This just baffles my mind that so much energy, words, and time can be wasted on such nonsense!!!!

Ok, I'm now stepping off my soap box, and I'm going to have breakfast and think about ways to OFF myself when I might feel the mood arise somewhere down the road, and hope that no one says I COMPLETED\COMMITED suicide. It won't matter, I'd be just dead!!!!!

 

[Suzetig]

It *is* relief. You seem to have some misapprehensions about me. Allow me to enlighten you: my first scar is on my wrist. I was eight. Suicide is all about leaving behind the pain of life. It's all about ending the pain and suffering and hopelessness. So, yes, it *is* entirely about relief.

For you it's about relief, based on your experience. That doesn't mean your experience translates across the general population. I've worked professionally with many people over the years for whom suicide has been a current, constant consideration. It's also been an issue for me at times.

What I know is that there are as many drivers towards suicide as there are people, as many understandings and meanings for people wanting to, or feeling uncontrollably driven to, end their life. Sometimes looking for some kind of relief, sometimes wanting everything to stop, sometimes feeling like they had indeed "completed" the useful part of their life.

What I see here is you struggling to comprehend that anyone in that place has a different experience of it than you did, therefore you're best placed to decide the language used to talk about suicide.

I do use "completed suicide" in my discussions with fellow professionals. We all know what we're talking about and common language is essential in my work.

In my work with people for whom suicide is an issue, it's all about them, their framework, their use of language, their experience - the connection and relationship is way more important than the words used so I'll go with what works for them, checking that we're on the same page if need be. Some will talk about attempted/completed suicide, some talk about ending their life, some talk about committing suicide - it all boils down to someone in excruciating pain, and it's important that I get that.

I don't think "complete" is always a positive thing, nor do I think - in the midst of incredible pain - me saying "completed" instead of "committed" will make a blind bit of difference in terms of someone's decision making process. Frankly if they're at the point where they can logically reason "complete is a good thing therefore suicide is good, I think I'll try that", they're quite far from crisis point and there's other work I can do with them.

Where it can make a difference is with those who are left behind, but again using their words, their frame of reference in their own time cuts across the semantics quite a bit. But amongst professionals common language is a good thing, and in that clinical setting I use "completed".

 

[joeylittle]

I just can't stay away, apparently.

We have never had a time when suicide wasn't considered bad so we can't answer that question. I have no knowledge of a society that either is neutral or approves of suicide as a means to end a life due to depression (most of the cultures I'm familiar with are western, including some south american tribal cultures-so if you are aware of one, please do enlighten and I'll do the googling footwork, I'm always interesting in learning new things).

This link might help: Here you go

I recommend starting with the Ohio University piece - it's a solid overview.

If you do, in fact, care about language - you should also care about facts, and pursue them.

 

[J'qel]

Your answer was not to my question. I was specific about means to end a life due to depression. I am very familiar with honour suicides.

I do care about facts, perhaps you should care about reading comprehension?

 

[joeylittle]

I was specific about means to end a life due to depression.

You aren't familiar with how depression is the initiating cause of an honor suicide, clearly.

Read up.

ETA: there are the italians, the Greeks...many other cultures at many times.

 

[J'qel]

@ suzetig- with the people I ave known who have attempted and prior to some who have committed suicide, it was always a relief, an escape from the pain, a relief of being a (perceived) burden. Suicidal depression almost *always* includes feeling of hopelessness and a need to escape the situation (whatever the situation may be).

It is perfectly fine to believe certain things, but terminology does make a difference, a simple google of how words affect one's mentality under the heading "scholarly studies" will provide ample data. I am all for beliefs and respecting them, but only when there is no academic date concerning the subject.

For example: spirituality and morality. Some questions are solely the province of belief, for everything else there's data.

@SheCat I understand your feelings and it's understandable this subject would make you upset. I have a habit of removing myself emotionally from charged conversations, and that is the only reason I *can* discuss this from an academic point. From an emotional point of view, I too would be railing against the whole "being dead" part-if I wasn't too upset to be online. It does make a difference, but words are for the living, not the dead.

@nowhere-this is true, finding a solution would be best-but we're *just* talking about the language and if it's a good or bad thing. I think how we talk about things is very important, but it's a lot like a small piece of sand in your shoe. It's something you don't notice, but if it continues to be there, if more sand joins it, eventually you'll be bleeding and blistered. Small things pile up, and if we can build on them properly they can make quite a difference. It's something therapists talk about as well, though not in a language manner. Every time they tell someone to stop and appreciate things like a warm drink, or a soft blanket, or a chocolate bar or... that's the same premise. Small good things can add up-just as much as small bad things.

All in all @general responses:

Remember, this isn't necessarily a conscious response. It's designed to have a *sub* conscious response-one you won't notice unless you're looking for it or pay attention to such things. It's along the lines of why fast food places use bright colours and have hard plastic chairs, and why expensive restaurants commonly use dark colours, especially green. It's the same thing as soft music playing in a waiting room, or a warm soft robe. Things that change your feeling without you being consciously aware of it.

You won't notice the difference-especially in yourself. You *might* notice it in other people if you pay attention. Our subconscious is a powerful tool, but it remains unseen within us.

I do appreciate the commentary, as it lets me know all of you a bit better, and it's interesting to know how many people have negative reactions to words, or even just attempted change in something as simple (as many see it) a change in a word. I certainly didn't expect people to get quite this involved about a word difference, and in some ways it's encouraging because it means people are thinking and talking and working stuff out.

I expect most of this discussion doesn't really apply in any major manner to most of you, but I do enjoy the chance to talk about it, even if we may disagree.

My most heartfelt sympathies to those (probably all of you) who are familiar with the tragedy that is suicide, and I hope that if you do feel triggered, please do take the time to step out and find something to comfort you, do take care of yourselves, while this may be about "completed/committed" it's the "suicide" part that can be hard to talk about and deal with for any of us.

 

[J'qel]

You aren't familiar with how depression is the initiating cause of an honor suicide, clearly.

Read...

Honour suicides are more complicated and that's why I specifically excluded them in my question. I'm trying to keep the focus both narrow and specific.

 

[Suzetig]

@ suzetig- with the people I ave known who have attempted and prior to some who have committed suicide, it was always a relief, an escape from the pain, a relief of being a (perceived) burden. Suicidal depression almost *always* includes feeling of hopelessness and a need to escape the situation (whatever the situation may be).

Do you have a reference/source for your assertion that suicidal depression almost always includes a feeling of hopelessness and a need to escape or is it based on your anecdotal experience?

My experience is different and as valid - and my experience is that people who are actively suicidal have a wide range of feeling of which hopelesness might be one, but not necessarily so. Research suggests that not all people who experience suicidal ideation are depressed, and may not be considered clinically depressed at the time of their suicide attempt.

I'm also interested in how you know that someone who completed suicide felt relief.

I have no issue with you arguing semantics around language - as others have said, the person is dead however you phrase it and the hurt and pain they feel deserves care and respect. I do have issue with you building a theory based on your own experience and thinking it applies to all without any seeming inclination to consider the views of people who know whereof they speak.

 

[J'qel]

Since I can't post a link (I just tried) here's what I typed in so you can look at the data for yourself:

Suicide and Hopelessness

(click on the "scholarly studies")

There should be more than enough data there. :)


Just as an aside, most of what I maintain is not my *personal* anything. I do not claim to anything unless I have a valid source, in this case, what I have been repeatedly told by multiple therapists.

I don't use only my own experiences unless it is about experiences of a personal nature. My initial referent was in rebuttal to an individual who seemed to be operating on the misconception that I a-had never been suicidal and b-did not know anyone who had committed suicide.

It was not, and was never mentioned or implied that it was my sole source. You don't know me well enough, but I would never do that in a discussion that relies upon evidence.

If you want a personal reference on the subject:

I think "completed" is dumb, and served absolutely no purpose. It doesn't even accomplish anything good and was likely dreamed up by some idiot who has no idea what a positive or negative term is. I think it was a brainchild of some person who couldn't write a cohesive essay to save their own life and was getting a big paycheck out of it. I don't think the term needs to change at all, but if it has to, that is not the way to do it.

My academic opinion:

The term "completed" is a positive term* and positive terminology should never be applied to negative things like suicide. It causes a psychology attachment of end of life to end of task, which correlates task to life, making life equalized to an unpleasant thing which needs to be endured and then finished. That is a destructive thought process which could lead to increased suicide rates if promoted among the general population. While population figures are significantly higher than current distribution of resources would promote, this would, in all likelihood, be primarily applied to the first world western countries which are, at the moment, experiences a population shortfall. Increasing the rate of fatalities while birth rates remain low would be detrimental to social and economic well being.

* As previously stated there is no single occurence in the english language where to "complete" something as is currently employed by common english speakers is considered to be the end of a positive task. We do not "complete" a movie, we "finish watching it". We do not "complete" a good book, we "finish reading it". We do not "complete" a vacation, we "come back from". We "complete" a task. We "complete" an assignment. We "complete" things we would rather not have to do in the first place.

As you may notice, the two opinions are quite different. While I appreciate the closeness that comes of familiarity, I might suggest not making negative assumptions prior to having actually gotten to know the individual and observe their reactions. Positive assumptions are always welcome and should be encouraged to be made about most individuals.

 

[Suzetig]

If you search for suicide and hopelessness of course that's what you'll find. You could equally type in suicide and poverty, suicide and addiction, suicide and trauma, suicide and honour, suicide and illness... there should be more than enough there.

And "with the people I have known" suggests anecdotal rather than empirical evidence - which has its place. And you do know that "the therapists I've talked to" still constitutes anecdotal evidence unless those conversations took place in a research context?

And your personal and "academic" opinions actually aren't that different. You're taking your knowledge of language and applying those rules to an entirely different discipline to support your personal opinion that you don't like the term "completed suicide". The term is hardly new - it's been used in the UK for as long as I've worked in this field - so about 20 years - without to my knowledge a discernible increase in people thinking suicide is a good thing.

 

[J'qel]

If you're unwilling to look at studies that have academic information, then I have difficulty allowing for any form of credibility to your criticism.

If there is a study and it *is* academic then properly applied is a question of if it is relevant. That is why they're studies and not Op-eds. Academics check to see *if* there's a correlation. A survey of the studies (not picking a single one) should be able to give you an answer.

If the scholarly studies examining the phenomenon agree that there is a correlation, it's not anecdotal. It's data. Whether you choose to read the information is irrelevant to actuality. If you want data, and I'm willing to provide it, and you still refuse to look at it, then it isn't about evidence or data at all. In which case, we really have nothing to discuss.

 

[Suzetig]

If you're unwilling to look at studies that have academic information, then I have difficulty allowing for any form of credibility to your criticism.

You didn't provide data, you provided a google search with the suggestion I look at "scholarly articles", that's hardly data.

I never said I wasn't prepared to look, but to look at all the data, not just studies that "prove" your point. For example, one study cites that 60% of people with suicidal ideation have a diagnosable mood disorder (which they define as depression, anxiety, bi-polar). Even allowing for depression as the most prevalent, it's a stretch to say most people with SI are depressed, because by definition 40% don't have a diagnosable mood disorder. If you want to look at suicide, you need to go beyond searching suicide and hopelessness - have you?

The studies I'm looking as just now say that heightened arousal is a greater predictor for suicide than hopelessness or depression. There are circumstances where hopelessness exacerbates risk particularly in people living alone or when joblessness is an issue but by no means is hopelessness a conclusive risk factor.

And I really don't care whether you think I'm credible or not - it's you who is failing to make an academic case for "completed" being an inappropriate or harmful term when referring to suicide in a clinical setting. You're entitled to your opinion but let's not pretend it carries any more authority than that.