Relationship What Am I Doing Wrong? Outsider's Perspective Needed...

[Hojay]

Status quo of my relationship now is that my SO is afraid to speak about "things" (anything at this point that pertains to me and my feelings, never mind how HE is doing) because he is afraid he is not safe with me. By safe he means, that I won't let him calm down. And by that he means that I will try to keep the conversation going, or text him, or try to call him after he has said the conversation is over. Over the last two years he has been incredibly open and forthcoming...this is a major kick in the gut.

So #1. I understand what he means. When he needs to calm down, he needs to calm down. I have become MUCH better at giving him space, have agreed to whole days of no contact when he needs it, hang up the phone and wait for him to call (though I slip up sometimes when #2 happens.) However, from how I see it, everyone is responsible for doing what they need to do for themselves. If he needs to not look at his phone for a few hours, so be it. If he needs to not pick up, so be it. It feels wildly unfair to make me responsible for him "not being able to calm down." It's not like I terrorize him with phone calls or pin him down to listen. He's a grown man and I'm not responsible for what he needs to get a handle of himself. It's his PTSD not mine. Right?

#2. And most importantly, the things he says to me before he needs to "go calm down" are sometimes so hurtful, so manipulative, so dismissive and disrespectful of my feelings and perspective, I get bat crazy angry. These are not okay things to say. However, given that he "needs to calm down" there is no talking about it and any sign on my part that I'm not okay AT ALL with his reaction to me is seen as "me not letting him calm down." I am left feeling incredibly hurt, resentful, unsure of where we stand, as well disrespected and just generally confused. But no way to resolved it, because, you know, I don't let him calm down.

His issue that "I don't let him calm down" has now hijacked our entire problem. He will somewhat apologize for what he said to me before, but that's NEVER the problem. The problem, of course, is me not letting him calm down.

I think the problem is rather, he's being out of control and out of line + he can't calm himself down. So why am I taking the blame for this?

I can't seem to figure this one out. What am I doing wrong?

 

[Mytime]

He said you do let him calm down, you say you do let him calm down.
I just want to make sure I'm understanding. What do you do to let him calm down?

 

[Mytime]

Sorry, I meant to say. He said you don't let him calm down.

 

[Nevermore]

): this is precisely why I stay alone. I can totally understand what you're saying and how it hurts. But I also understand the overwhelm he describes when he needs to calm down and can't.
He can not answer the phone, as you say, but it will take him longer to calm down if you keep contacting as every contact, answered or not, would bring the feelings on again.
It's not ok that you feel dismissed and disrespected - that makes me feel crazy too!
It sounds complicated and like you're pushing each other's buttons without really understanding what's going on.
Have you thought of couples counselling? Sometimes it's easier for an outsider to figure out what's going on than when you're in it.
Might be a good call!

 

[Hojay]

Thanks for jumping in, Mytime. So what happens, long story short, we have a normal conversation, I say something that ticks him off. He rapid fires some nasty, dismissive things at me, gets very heated, and out of line. Then he aborts the conversation. What I have trained myself to do is swallow the anger and wait. Maybe an hour or two later I will ask "Are you okay?" We will start writing, which sends me signal that he's okay to talk, upon which I will naturally express that I'm less than pleased about what has been said. Upon which he tells me I don't let him calm down.

When I'm particularly worried about him, or he's basically just broken up with me screaming, I will try to call him at some point. If he picks up, I'm taking that as a sign that I get a voice now too. Wrong. That's not letting him calm down.

So basically what I do to let him calm down, is hang up, wait, and let him take the lead. I have a hard time wrapping my head around the concept that a text means I'm not letting him calm down. Cell phones are little things you can easily turn mute until you're ready...

 

[Hojay]

Have you thought of couples counselling?

Yes, we're setting that up right now. Also the reason for my post here because I want to be very clear about my side of this story and go in knowing as much as I can.

He can not answer the phone, as you say, but it will take him longer to calm down if you keep contacting as every contact, answered or not, would bring the feelings on again.

I get that. But I also don't think it's unfair. Because essentially what that means is that he has free license to go off and disrespect me, and then I have to basically disappear so that HE can feel better. It's breaking my brain.

 

[Hojay]

I also have to add that, even if I give him days to calm down (no talking about it, no me expressing my anger) and things have calmed down, any mention of how "I" feel in those moments, how out of line he is, will set the whole cycle off again.

 

[Kintsugi]

Because essentially what that means is that he has free license to go off and disrespect me, and then I have to basically disappear so that HE can feel better.

That is unfair. It all sounds like quite an unfair and vicious cycle.

I also think that this

However, from how I see it, everyone is responsible for doing what they need to do for themselves. If he needs to not look at his phone for a few hours, so be it. If he needs to not pick up, so be it. It feels wildly unfair to make me responsible for him "not being able to calm down." It's not like I terrorize him with phone calls or pin him down to listen. He's a grown man and I'm not responsible for what he needs to get a handle of himself. It's his PTSD not mine. Right?

Is right on the money.

However, I also think that this

He can not answer the phone, as you say, but it will take him longer to calm down if you keep contacting as every contact, answered or not, would bring the feelings on again.

Is probably true for him. It is for me.

However, I don't really "go off" on people emotionally. If I feel hurt or angry, I typically just shut down, and there isn't much more to it. I end the conversation, and then I ignore attempts to reconnect until I can handle it. However, for me personally, I understand and acknowledge within myself that when I reconnect, I will most likely--in 99.9% of situations, unless years have gone by, and maybe still even then--have to "face the music," as it were and own up to whatever the dispute or issue was.

In any case, if you can't deal with this

So basically what I do to let him calm down, is hang up, wait, and let him take the lead.

Being the way to deal with this issue, you will both have to negotiate some sort of arrangement that you can both live with. When I isolate, luring me out is not a likely scenario, no matter how sweet the other person is, no matter how understanding. If I've been isolating for more than three days, I will be the one who ends it by reaching out first, and frankly, attempts to give me a "push" by people reaching out to me typically makes me recoil even further (although here I am speaking generally, because I almost never isolate as the result of some sort of argument).

Anyway, I agree that this behavior is unfair, but PTSD isn't often fair to anyone. The key, IMO, is coming up with strategies and compromises with which everyone can live more or less contentedly.

 

[Hojay]

Thank you, this was incredibly helpful and insightful.

I think this

in 99.9% of situations, unless years have gone by, and maybe still even then--have to "face the music," as it were and own up to whatever the dispute or issue was

...is the heart of the matter. This cycle feels like I have to train and re-train to cater to his needs while he takes little to no responsibility. He does not "face the music" in that way. And even though he apologizes and acknowledges it's not okay, at the end of the day, he does not see how he is co-creating the "not letting him calm down" issue. I think if I could trust that he could own up, the issue of letting him calm down would be non-existent.

 

[scout86]

he does not see how he is co-creating the "not letting him calm down" issue.

I'm trying to understand the situation. Could you explain how he 'co-creates' the situation? I have a suspicion that what you need him to do is something he's just not capable of doing. But I'm not sure about that.

 

[Nevermore]

I also have to add that, even if I give him days to calm down (no talking about it, no me expressing ..

Hi @Hojay
I just wanted to add here that I do know what you're talking about.
I have cptsd but my brother does too and he did this same stuff to me for years and it drove me crazy. I didn't realise that he also had this thing!
But I do know about emotionsl overwhelm because it happens to me too.
So for many years I thought my brother didn't love or respect me because any time I expressed an emotion he got angry and distant.
Last year he found out he had cancer, and when he told me I couldn't stop crying - went straight back to when we were children and because our mother had mental illness I basically was his mother and I loved him more than just a brother.
When we spoke it was like he finally also understood me and understood that I loved him and he remembered that he too loved me.
It was very emotional
And I finally got it that it wasn't personal how he was to me, that he was suffering in his own way. And the angry and often nasty comments he would make were to push me away when he was getting overwhelmed. Neither of us knew what we were both suffering from!
To cut a long story short, the love was always there but this illness is destructive on your closest relationships.
Because it's my brother not my lover, I can trust that but I realise it's different with a partner.
PTSD is very insidious. It takes a lot of understanding on both parts - both in yourself to understand what's happening when you're pushing someone away and in another to understand what's happening too.
I think it takes a very deep love to get through this stuff and a lot of trust.
It's possible though. I'm happy to tell you that my relationship with my bro completely evolutionised when we both understood ourselves and the other.
That's why I think an outside counsellor could help, esp one who deals with trauma and PTSD.
He has to understand himself too and know what's happening when it's happening. Education is crucial, I feel, in being able to deal with this.
It's also healing.
Real intimacy and trust is the most healing thing in the world, better than any therapist! But therapists can provide the understanding.
You matter too, and I hope you can both work it out so that everyone feels heard and loved and safe.
He is lucky to have you!

 

[Mytime]

I can understand how your feeling. The hurt and anger and sometimes the confusion. We all want to be heard and respect. I went through the same thing I think and this is what I learned in counselling. As for my SO, his stress cup was full. He had no room for my emotions or needs. He had no room for his own. He was numb and pulling away. Me, I'm feeling there's something wrong and we need to fix it. How do women fix it? We have to talk about it. So now my SO stress cup is full and anxiety is kicking in because he knows I'm going to try and talk to him. Me) I'm thinking we need to talk about how we are feeling, so we can work our feelings out. His needs are met and my needs are met. But here's the kicker. He doesn't have the ability to talk it out right now. His stress cup is full, his anxiety is high, so he's going to fight ( name calling, ect) then comes flight, ( he needs to leave) then comes the feeling of shame and guilt. He knows he's wrong for saying mean hurtful things.
Which adds more to the stress cup, We become this trigger of feeling shame and guilt. Because of the pain they can see they have caused. Now let go back to me. Me) feeling hurt, confused,ect.
Because, what's the big deal. I only wanted to talk. My anxiety is now up because he's pushing me away. I don't understand why he's pushing me away, it's just talking. Insecurity, sometimes desperation kicks in (anxiety) now we are in survival mode. We're calling,texting, ect trying to fix things and make it right. I've given him time to calm down. We should be able to talk about our feelings more. So now here we are again ready to talk it out. He apologizes for saying mean things. Your hurt by his words and tell him how much it hurts and disrespected you . BAM! Here comes anxiety, shame, guilt. Here's the trigger, what will I choose fight or flight. Now your anxiety kicks in. All I want is to talk about our feelings and work this shit out so we can move on, why is that to much to ask. Because if there's no room in the stress cup, emotions are over whelming. It's easier to feel anger, then it is to feel hurt,sad,shame,ect. There's safety in feeling numb or anger. I don't know if this helps in anyway and I'm not saying it's ok to be called names or disrespected. I'm just saying pick your battles. I know part of my issues and needs were because of my ego. Counselling has helped a lot. Sorry your hurting and I do hope you can work things out for you both.