Does Emdr Show What Is Trauma Or Hallucination?

[Beaglefan61]

Hi,
Something happened a couple of years ago which led to my going into full decompensation and i ended up in psychosis. Problem is one of the events which led to the meltdown did actually happen, yet because of the meltdown only a couple believe it was not a hallucination. This is a chicken or the egg type thing. The trauma preceded the psychosis. This has made healing horrible and i have gone backwards as a result. Being disbelieved has been horribly painful and i have detached more from humanity from it. Being able to confirm what happened is not likely as the other person involved is saying nothing. Emdr has been used for some psychotic symptoms. My question is can emdr show what is real trauma from a real event versus trauma from a hallucination? I am in serious trouble and my life has been totally wrecked by the lack of truth being known. It could be proven given a private investigator showing certain events or that a certain person was in fact in town on a certain day, but i haven't the money to afford this. Can Emdr show that what i went through was real life event or will it only address the trauma reaction to either trauma from a real event or a hallucination. Showing truth is crucial and i am working hard and only getting horrible results when disbelieved and my faith in humanity or trust in others or care to be caring of others is being obliterated. I am losing the war because people won't believe the truth i give and am left alone in my pain or disbelieved for it, which is causing massive damage. The event which happened is so unlikely that i don't expect many people will believe, yet life does not guarantee it will always present only plausible events. It just leaves those of us who go through the implausible in shape to where we are left alone in our pain.

 

[Deleted member 28942]

They still don't know how EMDR works. It helps you process memories and new memories can be uncovered. However, it does not create false memories. If you have a memory of something that happened to you that EMDR can help you process it. If it was a hallucination I don't think anything will happen. For EMDR, there is a negative cognition associated with the memory and feelings and visual images. I don't know how much this answer is helpful but I think it is worth trying it. I love it.

 

[Beaglefan61]

Thank you so much for the response. I read that EMDR is used with some psychotic symptoms so wasn't sure if it could prove difference between real and hallucination. For real, real belief certainly helps with the connections we absolutely need for healing. That if it was hallucination not much would happen then that could show a real difference that is needed. Thank you ever so much for the reply. I have been losing hope and losing a battle on this. It has left me torn between being angry at being left in position of where i would be disbelieved and feel guilty for things i said once i did fall into psychosis and had some really iffy influences about. I am glad that EMDR is helping you so much. Must be nice to leave some of the pain in the past.

 

[Knak]

Hi,
Something happened a couple of years ago which led to my going into full decompensation and i e...

A lot of what you explain is very hard to picture with many details missing, so it's hard to know what is compelling you, like the reason it is important for the truth to be believed, outside of your mental health. Your reactions are (sadly) normal in my opinion. Being questioned about the veracity of traumatic incidents is stigmatizing. To think it is an hallucination because you had a meltdown is a very unenlightened conclusion.

I don't see how your healing is backward, if you can make that more clear. I can see you are in a full blown crisis right now.

I assume you have not had EMDR and you are wondering if it could convince others that is it true. No, all it does is help clarify your thinking and reduce stress and your traumatic reactions.

If it is so important to prove it is true that you would consider hiring a detective, it sounds like a lot more than your state of mind is at stake.

I am trying to understand what your needs are since so much was left out, like who believes or doesn't believe you, and what role are they playing in your life? I don't know if you need personal reassurance, or if it a legal issue involving others, or if you need to establish credibility within your family, e.g.

We would like to help you. You sound desperate and are definitely hurting.

I hate to say it but if you are a young male late teens or twenties, schizophrenia can set in at that age. That is a worst case scenario.

 

[Fadeaway]

EMDR can't prove anything. especially not in a court of law. If you are looking to prove to yourself, then it is reasonable to believe that what memories came up had a profound effect on you. If you are hoping to prove to someone else by stating a memory came up during EMDR, well frankly, it is totally subjective because someone could lie and say they had a memory come up during EMDR and it actually never came up.

 

[Beaglefan61]

Thanks for the replies. That EMDR can not prove anything is a problem then. Belief is separating me from support and that is why this is so important. For it to be considered a hallucination has it not being taken seriously for the background of it all. The details are a bugger, thus i leave some out.

For years i was very supportive of others at websites and in person for ptsd issues. When this happened i got into serious trouble. Many i had supported withdrew though i was in a dire state. Much of it happened on facebook, quite by accident. Nobody seemed to believe the truth and thought i was just some schizophrenic rambling on. The person who this was over would not provide verification.

The statement that "I hate to say it but if you are a young male late teens or twenties, schizophrenia can set in at that age. That is a worst case scenario." is the whole problem. I am being treated as a psychotic disorder rather than as a person with a real pain from something that was extraordinary! Being alone in this has had me become more bitter about people and less caring to give to others as i did before. I can't bash myself for feeling this way. If you are left drowning and nobody lifts a hand in and pulls you up it is easy to wonder why i ever spent so much time doing exactly that.

I was age 53. Again stating, what is important here is the chicken or the egg. I went into a state of shock. My mind was struggling with what really happened and part of me was screaming "it was her in the store" and as people disbelieved i felt pulled further away from myself, thus dissociation grew rather than eased. I fell into psychosis after the state of shock. Never in my life have i had any visual hallucination. Why it is so important to be believed for it being true is what i have personally experienced is people treating it like it was a hallucination has been qualitatively different than how people treat something that did happen. Being disbelieved over trauma is not only a few, but doesn't research show that symptoms get worse when not believed?

My life has changed for the worse. I have changed for the worse. I do not expect the other person to be honest about what happened. It sounds so unlikely that i am scared to even put the details. What happened was not delusional. It is so unlikely expecting others to believe it would be. That is the best statement of sanity i can make at this point. I can put details if you want, but then you would doubt me. Thus the need for proof. I am hurt the other person is willing to roll the dice with my life when it comes to not giving the truth. That is how it feels at least. It is possible the other person does not fully know the need, yet there were signs the person did actually ask friends request on my facebook and i stupidly did not get a picture of her, though it was by a different name. It was profile picture of her only, but the blond standing next to her i had seen in a car with a woman who had roughly the same profile a few weeks earlier. They were about to pull into my driveway from a busy street, the blond looked at me and said something and the driver (the one this is about) pulled back away and sped off. I neglected to get a screen shot of the person on my facebook as an old stalker from England reemerged there and took some focus. The person immediately left facebook when i stated the need to be believed. My hope that the person will provide any information would be a delusion at this point. She was a celebrity. Even if she was hurt by things i said when in psychosis and a few influences were pretty much against her, things got so out of hand because of how it was dealt with in the first place. Don't i deserve the truth? The nature of how it happened was done smoothly enough that there would be little way to be believed if she is unwilling to provide word lest i can hire someone to show she was in fact around where i live that day.

I understand celebrities have rights. Don't we are regular people have rights to? When someones life or healing is on the line, is hiding the truth ever right even if we are really furious with the other person? Is there ever any reason hiding the truth is justified if another is on the line, even someone we do not like? Seems to me the Geneva convention is exactly about that: Certain standards apply, regardless of to whom we apply it. It all applies equally. If she is miffed about things i said, she still is the one who followed me into a store and that is where some problems started. This occurred because of a facebook post i mentioned her in after i had written letters of concern to her (worried something wasn't well for her).

If the celebrity thinks her reputation is more important than my life or my healing, then that is maybe someone i'd be better off not knowing and just having a way for the truth to be known is what is important. Things would not have gotten so out of hand had the truth been made known quickly! I could have her wrong on that and things may not be what they seem. What things are though is that i am alone in a truth of one and it is separating me from others in a way that IS CAUSING DAMAGE. That it was a celebrity, and which, is part of why people have found it so hard to believe. I can't worry about if she does not know the need i have or if she is actually somewhat uncaring of her responsibility to others or if she cares about problems she causes for others as much as caring that i need to heal from this. Yes, the facts being known is important. No, it was not an hallucination, again stating that hallucinations do not make follow up phone calls of "That was me in the store!" *click* I could not help that my mind went blank and i could not stop for her, which would have made all issues entirely different.

Just because something is highly implausible, does not mean it did not happen. When is someone keeping silent to take advantage of the implausibility or just gone and not knowing the need i do not know. I know the need of the difference being known. Trauma recovery is so much about being supported for what damage has been done and much of that has been withheld. I have already seen the damage caused by the lack of belief. If she simply does not care, that is on her. There is simply NO excuse in the world for her to know the need and say nothing. If she does not know, i still have need of truth being known. Maybe there is still a tiny part of me that does not want to become closed off and embittered by the whole circumstance that arose from this.

Thanks for the replies. Sorry about the length of this. It is a very complicated scenario. For bringing up that schizophrenia has onset in males of early 20's, this happened at age 53. I guess i have some very very very sore toes and being left in so much pain for months where i was not getting help because i knew so many would not believed did MUCH damage. I saw others whom i had given much to in support terms pulling away to basically let me die and i struggled through anyhow. Sadly, in ways i did die, simply because the truth was not made known. My way of being died. I was just hoping EMDR could actually prove some difference so that maybe i could have a chance at some resurrection. The truth shall set you free? It has been withheld. I was hoping maybe EMDR could offset some of that.

 

[Fadeaway]

What EMDR can do is help you with the pain this has caused you. I have seen some pretty whacked out unbelievable shit in my life. You would be surprised at what I do believe.

A celebrity caused your trauma? Just because it is rare doesn't make it unbelievable. Being a celebrity does not make someone a good person.

 

[Beaglefan61]

I am sorry you have been some whacked out unbelievable stuff. That often end up painful. Best to you in your healing from it.

I talked with someone who gave a dearly needed perspective. Her not saying anything does not make her a bad person either as maybe it shows she is human and could have frozen up and not known what was the right thing to do. That was needed to hear. It is so easy to get caught in the perspectives of rebel rousers when peacemakers are needed. So as it is, no need to think anything less of the person
in any personal way, which i far prefer. I just need to heal in the ways that helps me be a better person. That has been ultra tricky in how this
has gone. Ty for saying that rare is not the same as unbelievable. Wish many whom i tried to talk with would understand that. The trauma was not intentional, just i went into a state of shock and lost part of me when my feet kept walking but my heart didn't, if that makes any sense.

 

[Knak]

It is painfully obvious that you are in distress and I have compassion for you and understand sometimes the level of arousal keeps you from acting the way you wish you could have. If you need medical help to calm down, then seek it.

I agree with Fadeaway,

You would be surprised at what I do believe

There is a lot of crazy stuff I have seen too, and so have others who are rationally minded.

If you are afraid of being labeled, your state of mind can only be determined by a professional who could evaluate you over a period of time. Have you been to therapy or is there a reason you can't go?

You are right that being unbelieved can create great distress. It also depends on how much you trust yourself, and you have to develop that yourself with help. Your emotions shows you don't feet safe with people and believe nobody will accept you unconditionally when you need it. You have to develop your own safety net if it wasn't provided by your family. It's not easy or quick.

The incident seems to override your real needs to feel safe.

As Fadeaway said, EMDR helps process your feelings so you feel better. It works. It helps you understand and see truth.

If you can define a calmer clearer statement of your fear then you can progress. The "other person" doesn't define you. A person's history of reactions reveals patterns that define them, so think about the impression you leave by what you say and how you say it.

I read a post here by a person who was gang stalked by their father their whole life. I was exceedingly impressed by their ability to remain sane to make wise decisions so he could not destroy their self respect. That is an example to inspire you.

 

[serena young]

I am in the process of EMDR to be honest I'm not sure whether it is helping or not it basically takes a shaken bag of jigsaw pieces and puts them in the right place in your brain (in the correct filing cabinet!) However, it has brought things to my attention that I had clearly blocked out and has actually caused more distress and anxiety for me, my nightmares have been getting worse and my flashbacks are more intense. My therapist and I have previously come to the conclusion that my emotional self and logical self are in a conflicting battle and although I can see how EMDR can work maybe I am not just letting it (If that makes sense) I think like all things in life it is how you can deal with it.

 

[Beaglefan61]

Ty Knak, yes i have been to therapy. The circumstance itself was so unlikely (who would imagine a celebrity hiding their movement? of course they do duhhhhhhhh) that belief tends to be a matter of degree over time with then full degree not there. My therapist and psychiatric nurse are both leaving in April. Start over with a slow process of being thought it only a hallucination to having any small belief, lovely. My psych nurse is pretty believing but she is way up on the empathy scale and my therapist is kind of matter of degree belief.

It is good to hear that emdr would help in processing the feelings as that i where i am stuck. Part of me is still stuck i time 2 1/2 years ago and one moment i felt something about that moment there was very acute grief and disbelief has caused horrible pain and it seems meanwhile i am stuck in pain and in part of me in that moment. So while i don't have to let that moment define me per se, the likelihood of it happening in the first place is too much defining how helpful the help is. If i am hurting all the time too much it is hurting my life. It it separates me too much from others it is defining my relationships more than i would want.

That is terrible what you mention about the person who was gang stalked. That they could maintain sane and wise decisions is laudable. I lacked that for a time when people were pulling me away from the truth when i was already dissociating so i went into psychosis as the rift between reality and what i was being pulled to believe became great and my discretion during that was total crap. Even knowing what is right and wrong was more prone to being influenced by others. I fought against it but the disbelief did hurt and continues to hurt. T

y for your comfort and compassion. It is something that has me throwing my hands up to the sky yelling "why?????" I don't think the celebrity in question understood what was happening and first thing she knew is i was railing against her after walking away so her corroboration seems blasted unlikely at this point ( oh there are some phone conversations i wish she could hear while knowing i had already fallen into psychosis between the event and the reaction of others to it ). I was stalked in 1991 and there was horrific damage done by disbelief, and yes by disbelief by a therapist. By the time the truth was shown it was too late and the damage was done that required its own healing process. What you say about the event overriding my real need to feel safe, the fight or flight associated with this stuff i'm trying to keep aware of to not cause further problems. Just sure is easier if being believed rather than having to 'grit it out' by will power. The healing is coming slowly and the effort itself is bringing damage when disbelieved or mislabeled. Your understanding very much appreciated! The way this stuff can take over a life despite the best of effort is maddening.

 

[Beaglefan61]

It sounds very painful for you there Serena. Part of the healing is getting more to the memory and so for you that the symptoms may seem worse at the moment makes sense. It is in that more intense place where they have more ability to be healed at least. Finding the balance with intensity of symptoms and the support and trust and readiness for the getting through the pain can get tricky. I hope things go well for you on that as it seems in healing is absolutely helped by our connection to others. What you say about letting EMDR work and maybe you are not letting it, i hope you won't be too hard on yourself as it is hard to force the pain sometimes. One thread i saw about nausea and feelings in therapy had to do with maybe not being ready for something yet. Maybe even with emdr there has to be the resources around us and we need to be built up for it so we can handle stuff. Please don't think you are doing anything wrong at all. This is tough stuff or we would all just cough up the pain immediately after the trauma rather than it messing with our lives. I hope you will remember what is said on that is still true: It is a process. The best we can hope is to bit by bit have the process go the right direction without things working against it. Be gentle with you there and remember you are on a road and remembering the road better means you are getting somewhere rather than failing in your travel.