Systema and ptsd

[Deadman]

Over the past couple of months of been using principles I've learned from a couple of books that I got from Amazon. I was skeptical at first but I'm finding it surprisingly effective for heading off PTSD symptoms and grounding if they catch me by surprise.

A lot of people here talk about the power of breathing. Although I used to teach four count breathing and combat breathing I underestimated the power of breathing in regards to PTSD. That leads me to my first book recommendation, "Systema Health: 25 Practises For A Lifetime Of Health, Fitness and Wellbeing". Much of the book deals with breathing and is unburdened by all the talk of chakras and third eyes common in other books about breathing.

The second book I recommend is, "The Systema Warrior Guidebook: A Systema Guide to Life". I'm still reading this book but I was pleasantly surprised to find a section that talks about fear, anxiety and even PTSD. There are sections that are pertinent to questions recently asked on this forum. Threads like @Roslie22 's How do you distinguish a gut feeling from a ptsd response?

If you made it this far in the post you may have realized that Systema is often described as a Russian martial art. Don't let that deter you. Neither of these books covers anything more martial than breathing to control fear or developing your 'intuition'.

 

[joeylittle]

I agree with you about breathing, @Deadman. It's the one thing I can always count on in order to manage myself biologically (if that makes sense). For me, it actually takes a lot of the 'woo-woo' out of handling stress reactions. I don't need to try and think, or imagine, or find some sensory (soothing/grounding) aid. Just get the breath under control and the central nervous system follows.

Thanks for the reference - the books sound interesting.

 

[Suzetig]

Another big fan of breathing - four count breathing will get my symptoms under control 90% of the time if I do it for long enough. I had lots of doubts and really fought my therapist on it but it's been the only thing that lets me slow my thoughts long enough to figure out what's going on and break the thought patterns.

I'm not a great fan of the woo that often goes with breathing, and mindfulness just doesn't do it for me but I did do martial arts and the breathing patterns work for me. The other 10%? I know if breathing isn't helping there's something major working in me and I'll need to ride it out.

I'll add your book recommendations to my reading list.

 

[Tornadic Thoughts]

Breath, the most powerful grounding tool we have with us 24/7 and we don't need a prescription or anyone else's permission to use it. Changed my life for the better, for sure. A whole new world of symptom management opened up when I learned it, especially anxiety related. Not to mention self-empowering as all get out once you feel the benefits a few times.

I had no clue just how shallow my breaths were and how physically tensed up I'd stay most of the time until I started practicing diaphragmatic deep breathing. My poor cells rarely got any good doses of oxygen, on top of drowning them in a sea of tox-sick-city from what I ate, drank, breathed in, bathed in, surrounded myself with through others, and thought about all the time. No wonder I was losing my shit and falling apart more often than not. I still have great potential to do that, just not nearly as often or as intensely as before.

No matter how one stumbles upon the benefits of breathing on purpose, it's well worth the search, from my experiences. Unfortunately, much of what lead me to find the therapeutic value is apparently considered too "out there" by many others to even entertain the thought of trying, often prolonging the time it takes for them to find it for themselves. It's difficult to be so excited about something you've found that works so many wonders for you, trying to openly and freely share it with others, while also trying to watch each word hoping you won't sound nuts to folks who you already know will be less than enthused. I try to keep it entertaining for all involved and just roll with it. lol

I found the benefits via a "woo-woo" (that always makes me giggle) weekend rhythm revival I attended on a whim that included shamanic journeying with rattles and drumming (no external mind-altering substances ingested, eaten, or smoked), African tribal dancing, sound healing via singing bowls, didgeridoos, and gongs, chanting, yoga, mindful meditation, fire ceremonies, etc. So many helpful things are often automatically tuned out once folks hear a key word or two. I do it, too. Language, just like the breath, albeit incredibly helpful and very necessary, remains one of our greatest hurdles. Then there are the hustling jackasses and manipulators deceitfully trying to make a buck while purposely misleading and harming folks all day long using those same key words. Grrrrrr..... They're everywhere, in every arena.

Always excited and happy for those who finally discover, harness, and experience the power the breath holds! It's been like no other in my life and it's one of the few and most valuable things we each have total control over, unless medically inhibited somehow. Perhaps one day it will be a part of every school, office, and home scene. Fingers crossed! Self-Empowerment 101. Sign me up! :)

I haven't studied any martial arts, but tai chi and qi gong intrigue me. I haven't practiced or deeply studied either, just dabbled here and there in checking out the poses and such in my search for gentle yet powerful movements. I often see tai chi as being highly recommended for older folks who wish to strengthen their balance and improve range of motion. Both being areas I'd like to work on more. I look forward to checking out your suggestions, too. Thanks!

 

[scout86]

This is something my T talks about a lot. (My first session, he told he that he tends to match his breathing to that of his client, and he'd appreciate it if I'd exhale before he passed out.) Among other things, I've found it helps me get to sleep, sometimes. I plan to check out the books!

 

[Deadman]

I haven't studied any martial arts, but tai chi and qi gong intrigue me.

I can vouch for Tai Chi. Back when I was working a very high stress desk job I was lucky to have a co-worker who, as part of his Tai Chi training, was obliged to teach others. We would spend our 'smoke breaks' practicing. It was very good for stress relief and getting movement back in bodies harmed by too much sitting.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

I have an App called What's up with 3 breathing techniques under "help now" and one is 4-7-8 breathing. I googled "how to do 4 count breathing" and it is the exact same thing.

For me, that helps sometimes. It can lower anxiety to zero if my anxiety isn't very high. It can lower it some if it is higher. It can stop a "red zone" if I catch it before I get there (which, today, I usually can), but not lower the anxiety. Meaning, I stopped the explosion for that moment but I need to run and go take a xanax and my dog very quickly or an explosion will still occur. I do continue to do that breathing after taking the xanax and my dog is on me as breathing into is weight helps a ton.

But all in all, it only helps maybe 30% of the time.

One is belly breathing and that really doesn't do much and I tend to dig my nails into my belly so don't really do that one.

One is roll breathing which, for the life of me, I can't seem to do. After you breath into your lower part of your lungs "belly" for a bit, you are to inhale into the lower part of your lungs, then, with your lower part of your lungs still filled, inhale into the upper part of your lungs, within the same inhale. I can breath into the lower or the upper but not both in the same inhale period of time. It just ends up frustrating me. I have practiced when not anxious or in need of calming but just cannot seem to do it.

I am not sure why breathing doesn't help me as much as it does others. My head always goes very fast. I am a very analytical thinker. It is always calculating something and, this being a HUGE problem of mine that I have not been able to fix yet. I do this often:

There can always be more analysis! It is possible to suffer analysis paralysis because there is always more data to consider. They want to take another look, and another, to ensure they haven’t missed anything.

Do You Have An Analytical Thinking Style?

It almost dominates me much of the time. I don't want to change being analytical, at all. It is what makes me good at my job, at puzzles, at very difficult things. It is what makes me an amazing reseacher. Everyone in my real world seems to come to me with all of their stuff too because I am known to being able to find a good path to take or fix the problem or whatever. And, I analytize EVERYTHING. I call it calculating because that's what it feels like.

But my point is, breathing doesn't stop or slow my head. I can't seem to refocus it on counting my breaths. It takes a lot to distract my brain. I have all puzzle games on my phone and most I get bored with very quickly. It is hard to find difficult enough puzzle games to keep my brain distracted. And to turn it fully to refocus it is a very difficult feat. My therapist has a hard time helping me refocus as well. He has admited that to me. Not that it was bad. He said it was because I was so intellgent. I don't know about that but a lot of my anxiety is caused by my brain, or at least made worse by my brain. If it comes out of nowhere, my brain will make it 100 times worse and keeps it going. It sucks! But, I think (and totally could be wrong) that may be why breathing exercises don't seem to help much of the time. I need more to slow my brain.

I have been able to gain a lot of help from the deep pressure therapy from my dog though. Not just DPT by itself but I will breath into his weight which helps and I will count his breaths vs my breaths and his heart beats vs mine. That seems to help a lot. Not sure why though.

Oddly, I have found that if I can find a pattern (a rug, a wall, something) then tracing it with my eyes helps. I look for patterns as well. Amount of chairs in a row, how things are stacked, etc Not sure if that is connected to anything though.

I'm not sure about the books and what else, besides breathing, is in there or if there are addtl breathing techniques in it?

 

[Friday]

Systema is awesome.

In a lot of ways it reminds me of the flipside of Aikido. Redirecting your own energy vs redirecting theirs. How to absorb what's sent at you, and not have it overwhelm you. So. Damn. Useful. Because that works whether it's someone else sending your nervous system haywire, or your own self.

It's also wicked that you can practice a lot with only a laundry bag hung from a tree branch or rafter :sneaky:

Great recommendation.

 

[scout86]

I am not sure why breathing doesn't help me as much as it does others. My head always goes very fast. I am a very analytical thinker.

I think, maybe, the key to why it doesn't help you as much as it might is that second sentence. The point is to slow things down. I don't think it has much to do with thinking style, analytical or otherwise.

The way my T explained this to me is that "a well adapted antelope has to be able to go 0 to 60 in a heart beat, but it also has be able to go 60 to 0 nearly as fast." Sometimes you need to think fast, sometimes it's advantageous to slow those thoughts down. With the breathing, you have to focus on the breathing itself. Kind of get inside it. Shut everything else out. Become the breathing.

One of the things that keeps me from falling asleep is I can't get my brain to shut down that much. I suppose it doesn't feel 'safe'. But, if I focus on breathing, really focus. Not just on the speed or the count, but on the total quality of the breathing, fairly often I can fall asleep. If it's actually going to help me calm down during the day, I have to it with the same kind of intensity.

 

[Deadman]

One is roll breathing which, for the life of me, I can't seem to do.

I'm struggling with that as well. But then I've been struggling with most breathing exercises. For a long time I couldn't do any of it without intrusive thoughts flooding in. Since my PTSD symptoms have eased I've been able to try again with some success. I'm also struggling with breathing ladders (in for one step, out for one, then in for two steps etc working your way up) but as my concentration gets better I'm improving.

But my point is, breathing doesn't stop or slow my head.

I had the same problem. I'm also one of those annoyingly analytical people. PTSD made me analytical and easily distracted not to mention reluctant to 'let go'. Lots have practice has made the breathing easier and more effective. I found the breathing while doing floor movements exercises helped short circuit the wandering mind.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

One of the things that keeps me from falling asleep is I can't get my brain to shut down that much.

Yeah, I have that same issue. My anxiety is at its all time high on a constant basis at night. It is rather intense. And I think this:

Sometimes you need to think fast

Without the rest of that sentence. I think it meshes with my thinking style? Or just feels that way. Making a million "what if" plans feels like analyizing I suppose.

One with the breathing. Become the breathing. Sounds like meditation which I also cannot seem to do for the same reason.

Have no idea how to change that other then practice.

PTSD made me analytical

I've always been very analytical but I was able to shut off a part of my brain from age 10 to about 2002 (age 21). I was able to shut out all by one or two emotions, no thoughts and draw or paint that/those emotions. I am a natrual, never been taught, artist but I have to be able to stop my head to produce any sort of anything worth while. I lost my abilty to produce art at around 2002. I am not sure if that is when PTSD symptoms started but I think it started soon after if not during but around that age was a peak in them. I have made a few here and there pieces since but in the last 8 yrs, at least, nothing but a partial drawing when trying teaching a mentally handicapped woman how to shade and I think I was able to do that due to teaching. I can't find my zone and that's due to PTSD. Which is the same issue, can't shut down my brain and thoughts.

My therapist has, in SOOOO many ways, to get me to try to paont or draw as he really wants that outlet back for me but I just cannot seem to and just end up frustrated. But, maybe practice still?

 

[scout86]

Have no idea how to change that other then practice.

Bingo!

I think it meshes with my thinking style? Or just feels that way.

It meshes with what your thinking style is NOW. Doesn't have to stay that way. And there are reasons why it might be better if you had control over it.

artist but I have to be able to stop my head to produce any sort of anything worth while.

This is the same thing. And, I think, what's getting in your way is hypervigilence. That's probably my major 'symptom'. As far as I know, I've been that way all my life and I have a hard time imagining anything different. When my T first started talking about this, I thought he was nuts, because being anything other than 'high alert' 100% of the time seems dangerous. The thing is, it isn't ALWAYS dangerous. And being on high alert 100% of the time is kind of hard on your body. That antelope needs to be able to eat too, not just watch for tigers. It's been my experience that the practice is well worth the effort. My biggest problem is that I don't always notice when I'm tense. It's taking a lot of work to learn to notice when I need to work on turning the threat level down.

What you're shooting for, with the breathing, is that same 'in the zone' feeling that you have gotten with your art. If you could do it once, at least you know you can do it. It's 'just' a matter of learning to do it again. And then learning to turn it on & off.