Best least expensive raw meat diet for a dog?

[lostforgottensoul]

You might want to read on the websites above about raw feeding. I'm a member on dogfoodchat.com. There's some people on there who've been feeding raw for years. One person, DaneMama, is quite knowledgeable.

Thank you! I will def join and learn what I can!

Feeding raw salmon isn't good because it contains bacteria and worms that aren't healthy

Also feeding certain wild animals are not healthy such as bear meat and wild boar. Same problem with bacteria and other contaminants.

Ah, I see. I never eat fish and have no idea how to cook fish as I have always hated fish and all seafood but I can learn. Preverable without any sort of spices or flavors. He gets fish oil now so will continue that.

I also don't eat wild game. I have had venison and buffalo but that's it other then the normal meats.

 

[Fadeaway]

@Incongruous those links are awesome, I have been looking for sites like that for the OP as I benefit ferret raw forum which is very similar to the Dog Food Chat.

 

[Deleted member 41318]

from dried to freeze dried and other foods

Crowfeather's preparedness for a hospital stay, where he can be sure to administer when the pet is ready to get his/her health back. I was caught unawares, which leaded me to the suggestions by the vet (that were awful and absurd). I wish he hadn't spent any time at that
questionable place. I would have loved to have nursed him back with decent food, if had I taken him back to our home much sooner.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

@Nathan Sady, did part of your reply get cut off at the top? Just confused at what you're saying.

I am going to buy and always have on hand a good amount of freeze dried raw to give to him if I am ever hospitalized with him. He would be in the hospital with me as long as I can find someone to take him out twice a day every day and take him if I need surgery and some procedures where he wouldn't be allowed in there. So freeze dried would go to the hospital with us. Enough for the entire hospital stay and more at home if its a longer stay. Learned that from a team that is in the hospital often.

I am thinking to also put some freeze dried toppers, made to go on top of kibble, mixed in his kibble along with green tripe and yogurt to help him transition.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

I just gave him a new bone and wanted to show that he doesn't bite it but puts it to the sides of his mouth and grinds on it;

The thing to the right is the antler.

I had to pull off the blanket because when he has a bone on a blanket he obessively tries to bury it with his nose. My parents dog did that with treats as well. Its why he never gets a bone in his crate as he has a blanlet on there. Even old ones that gets put down and he can have alone. He still tries to bury it.

He will use his front teeth to pull off some pieces that are dried cooked meat on these as they are still meaty bones, just way less meat then a raw bones, but not to bite it. If a small piece of bone comes off, he spits it out, and ignores it. He never swallows small pieces of the bone and only chews up and eats the cooked meat on it but I still watch and quickly pick those small pieces of bone up right away and throw them away if that happens. I also watch to be sure he isn't chewing on a small piece as it has a crunch sound and the meat pieces on it doesn't.

So far I have not had any issues with it but I wouldn't give him a new one alone. I feel that would be too dangerous. The ones that are down are fully cleaned, all white, and no way of small pieces to come off but I also go through the small dog bed that holds his toys and bones and make sure there are no small pieces or bones with sharp pieces often and throw out anything that has even a small chance of hurting him.

I think everyone that gives dogs real bones should watch them with that bone until at least it is down to a soild white piece (best way to explain it). He still goes to get and chews on the old ones. That's why they are still down with his toys. Just not as often as he chews on a new one so he gets a new one once to twice a week right now. He will get new bones a day when he is on raw. But will still be watched when chewing and eating on a new meaty raw bone.

ETA: I should also say he chews on these bones for a few days before it gets put down full time and he looses intrest to chew on it constantly. So he chews on one constantly every few days or so and then picks the old ones up in between and will spend a bit chewing on an old one. With the antlers now, he is chewing on bone or antler every day, most times a few times a day.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

So we cut back to bone once a week in the form of turkey necks.

I was just thinking about this. EVERYONE seems to like to give raw turkey necks and if turkey cannot be found, then chicken necks. But there are folks here saying to give raw bones that are large and round and unable to fully fit in their mouth to prevent the dog from swallowing them whole or for a sharp dangerous piece from being swallowed. Why are raw turkey necks and chicken necks and raw chicken quarters (what most seem to also like) different?

 

[Deleted member 8714]

Why are raw turkey necks and chicken necks and raw chicken quarters...different?

Raw chicken necks are way too small and present a choking hazard for dogs.

Raw chicken hindquarters are a good substitute as well as two chicken thighs or a bone in chicken breast (fed twice week) or ribs of a specific type (we didn't use this much because it was difficult to obtain) or a turkey wing. However we were feeding them the raw chicken hindquarters too often. Once a week would be enough bone.

Though when first starting off, once a week might not be enough bone. It depends on the dog. That's why it's recommended that you check their stool out to be sure it's the right consistency. In our yard the stool dried up and blew away so fast that there wasn't much chance to check it out.

The formula that I've read, though didn't stick to exactly and no one sticks to exactly as it's a rough estimate, was 10% bone, 10% organ meat, and 80% meat. I was more like 8% bone and 10 - 12% organ meat. So if you fed a hindquarter you'd be slightly over in the bone and that's okay. You'd feed bone for only one meal and just one hindquarter.

Also I was reading that you don't have to restrict organ meats when beginning a raw diet. I would in the first week (that's just me) and then slowly introduce bits and pieces there after. We restricted the organ meats until after the third week.

Since my husband has ADHD and had a difficult time keeping track of when he fed/how much etc., we kept a food diary. Obviously that's not necessary for most people. We also had a chart for colder/hotter days where our dog(s) needed slightly more food. I had the breakdown of the different amounts per meal to feed. This really helped my husband when feeding our dog(s).

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Raw chicken necks are way too small and present a choking hazard for dogs.

I mention chicken as I was watching a vlog of specifcally pitbull owners went to the store for their stockup for 2 weeks and there wasn't turkey necks so she got chicken necks. But even a turkey neck is smaller then the beef knuckle bones I give him today and many on here advised to only give raw bone that is big enough that he can't get the whole thing in his mouth. I get that the point is for him to eat the bone. I guess I am just a bit confused about that. Is it just to not give small enough bone that he can swallow it whole?

I've given him cooked rib bones which are soft and he did perfectly fine with them.

I haven't joined the sites that you posted yet but I will. I am sure all questions will be answered there. Sorry, don't mean to ask so many questions.

we kept a food diary

Yeah, I plan on doing that. I do not trust myself to just be able to get the ratios right. I'll likley do it by the book at first and then deviate due to his needs if needed.

All the research and people vlogging that I saw gave ground bone along with meaty bones. I wonder, as that sounds like too much bone, if ground bone is in there to make sure they eat enough bone? And the ones I saw gave at least one meaty bone at every meal. But, on that rough estimate, 10% bone, that sounds like too much bone.

Hmmm! I am in bed now but will join those sites tomorrow. Thank you so much for all the help!

 

[Deleted member 8714]

He did bite a long bone about as thick as my arm in half with one bite

It's interesting to note what wild animals do with their prey. Wolves hardly ever chew on long bones and then usually to get the meat off of it. Wolf researchers have found the rear molars broken most often from chewing on long bones. I was just reading a site about wolf killing and eating habits. It said that when prey is readily available wolves eat the organ meats first, the meat second, and the rib meat last. They leave all other bones untouched, i.e.; leg bones and the rest of the bones. When not plentiful, they break open a long bone and eat the marrow.

One thing I wanted to share with you. The satisfaction on my dog(s) faces when they ate their first raw meal. They loved chewing on their chicken hindquarters. It was the first raw food they ever got. The look on their faces I'll never forget. I knew then I'd never feed any other way as long as had dogs.

Bailey enjoyed his turkey necks all the way up until the last week he was alive. When he'd see me get one out of the refrigerator he'd lie on the floor and wait by the refrigerator. He had a super gentle mouth and I could feed food right out of my hand. Not a mean bone in his body.

 

[Deleted member 8714]

Is it just to not give small enough bone that he can swallow it whole?

Yes. You can find huge turkey necks and feed the whole thing. Though that might go over the needed amount of food for the dog's meal. If it bothers you too much to feed turkey necks stick with a single chicken hindquarter a week.

Also starting off with chicken hindquarters eases the dog into learning to chew its food thoroughly.

One thing which alarmed me the first time my dogs ate the hindquarter was them "wolfing" down the food like they do with kibble. This is quite common for most dogs new to raw. I watched them from a distance and restrained myself from saying anything. However they'd soon regurgitated it back up and then thoroughly chewed it before swallowing it again. Many people try to encourage their dog to eat the new food. We placed one dog in a kennel and he refused his food after twenty minutes so we picked it up and placed his bowl back in the refrigerator. That evening the dog was ravenous and ate his new food.

I had the typical paranoia of a newly converted raw feeding pet owner; the fear they would choke on their food. Everyone goes through it. After that first day with raw, one of my dogs got in the habit of starting at one end of the hindquarter and pulverizing the entire piece of meat before chewing it up and swallowing it. While the other one pulverized the area where he started eating the food and chewed off pieces and ate it. Still if they got too much down, they'd regurgitate it back up and pulverize and chew it again.

But, on that rough estimate, 10% bone, that sounds like too much bone.

Actually not. Think of it this way. You're feeding your dog one bone meal a week. That's it. All the rest of your dog's meals in a week's time are meat and organ meat combined. If the bone you feed in that one meal doesn't equal the pound +/- or ounces you'll need to feed in a meal, you add meat to it. So it's not very much at all. I used to combine organ meat and bone for one meal and then feed the rest of the organ meat needed with another meat meal on a different day.

The problem with ground bone is you don't know how much is in the ground bone. Not only that, again you risk the possibility of contaminants from the grinding. The less processing of a raw diet, the safer for the dog.

I'd say the best and healthiest way to fix fish is poaching it. That way has the least amount of added fat. With salmon you can feed them all of it including the skin and bones. The canned salmon has the bones and skin with the meat in the can. The large cans were about 11 to 12 ounces each net weight. When I opened the can the bones could be seen in the center of it.

No problem with the questions. Ask plenty on that dogfoodchat forum and people will try to answer them. Also read the stickies at the top of it and all of the testimonies people share about their dogs fur changing. That's one thing we noticed after three months. Their fur got super soft and shiny.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Actually not. Think of it this way. You're feeding your dog one bone meal a week. That's it.

What I meant being too much bone was what I am seeing on a video and research (and research does contradict itself).

Pitbull owners said they feed a chicken quarter every day along with ground beef and then some odd organs. And then a service dog handler feeds meat with some sort of bone a day and ground bone as well with the ground stuff. Also when searching for videos on how to feed raw they advised to feed all of the ground stuff together along with any fruit, veggies, green tripe, yogurt, egg and egg shells etc and add ground bone to that and then 1 meaty bone a day.

So, everyone seems to be giving a bone a day along with ground bone. That seems like too much bone with the ratio being 10% bone.

It is smart to get their entire week of needed bone out of the way then the remainder of the week is ground, whole meats, and I would add meaty bone that is much harder (and much bigger) to satisfy the need to chew and grind on a bone. So I may give less bone in that weekly one to give him that.

I had the typical paranoia of a newly converted raw feeding pet owner; the fear they would choke on their food. Everyone goes through it. After that first day with raw, one of my dogs got in the habit of starting at one end of the hindquarter and pulverizing the entire piece of meat before chewing it up and swallowing it. While the other one pulverized the area where he started eating the food and chewed off pieces and ate it. Still if they got too much down, they'd regurgitate it back up and pulverize and chew it again.

Yeah, I have that paranoia already. I want to get it right. I know that paranoia will be way more when I start it. I want some green tripe before I start so I can start him on that first. I will need to buy it canned as I know I wouldn't be able to pull it off the stomach myself and grind it. That wouldn't take a meat grinder, I don't think, but a normal food processor. Which I do have and will process his fruits, veggies, grind up egg shells, etc with it. But anyway.

I never thought to allow a dog to eat their vomit but I guess it makes sense as its still food and it is now more ground up. When your dog is on kibble you tend to not want them to eat it and go clean it up. That's what I always do anyway. I guess rules change with raw, huh?

Ask plenty on that dogfoodchat forum and people will try to answer them. Also read the stickies at the top of it and all of the testimonies people share about their dogs fur changing. That's one thing we noticed after three months. Their fur got super soft and shiny.

Oh, I def will! Darwin's said that at first their fur may change in a bad way:

This condition may be a bit unnerving – you may see mucus coating your dog’s stool, excess shedding, dry skin, runny eyes, or other symptoms. Chronic or periodic skin conditions may briefly worsen. These symptoms do not mean that your pet is sick – in fact, they are signs that it is getting “unsick”, as the dog’s body purges itself of the various toxins that have built up over time.

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They say it can take a few weeks to a few months to see the benefits or for this detoxing to be completed. It doesn't sound like you experienced that.

I want to start with green tripe to help his bacteria to get up to spec so the transision is easier. He is prone to having stomach upsets and loose stools (though he has not had loose stools in months) but that makes me want to transition slow and take all the procaustions I can, thus why I want to start with green tripe and start super slow.

Maybe even add some freeze dried toppers to his kibble for a bit long with the green tripe and do that for a week, adding in more freeze dried raw and less kibble as I go. Not sure about that yet.

I am going to join those sites now and look around. Again, thanks so much for the help!

 

[Nessa7]

Another issue with raw salmon is Salmon Poisoning Disease. Despite the name, it also happens with other fish. It's more of an issue in the Pacific Northwest.

I'm on the side of always cooking fish if it hasn't been professionally frozen. Most freezers that people have at home don't get the fish cold enough to kill everything. I've seen people recommending freezing it for a day before feeding it to dogs, but I don't know about that. I wouldn't eat fish that hadn't been frozen for at least seven days, so I never fed it to the dogs unless it had been frozen that long.

The dog we have right now is too delicate for a raw food diet, but she still gets fish that we catch about once a week. We also buy smelts. If you have a grocery store that has a lot of Italian customers, you can find big bags of frozen smelts around the holidays.