News Us politics - read first post before comment

[New]

I'm not trying to scare you off, but isn't this a place where mods have allowed us to respectfull...

I didn't mean on this forum. I'm sorry.

 

[anthony]

"Here, fishy fishy fishy" (all members can weigh in...) Yeah, I don't think so.

First member thread banned. Anyone else?

 

[anthony]

Putin wants to undermine western democracies, and the guy at the top here isn't doing anything about it except tweeting nonsense

I was watching something recently, and I remember them saying that Trump has talked shit about every single person that has crossed his path, pretty much, except Putin. It was suggested that Putin has something very damming on Trump that Putin is his puppet master. That's what I find scary -- that another countries leader could possibly have enough damaging material on another leader that hits a nerve enough to puppet master them.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Because agreeing to disagree when times are so bad amounts to complacency.

Well, it all depends on how you define it really. In my book, I have an opinion and others have theirs and I respect theres and expect them to respect mine. And with that I can have super civil constructive discussuons about politics, and religon as its the same way. But never bending on my hard in opinions really but rather considering another view in my overall "intake" of information. I mean, you have to have both sides for an educated opinion and so thats what I mean.

But I can see compacency as well and that's not a good thing either. I just wish we wouldnt rip each other apart over it all.

As on the topic of Trump, I haven't had enough time to really formed any opinions of him as a President yet. I do like he has chilled out a bit. That scared me a lot. I am a bit worried over what is being drawn up for Health Care. I don't want what it currently is and it is also my own opinion that ObamaCare is quickly dying. I believe it is IA where all the insurence companies pulled out and the same thing is happening here I was told. Florida Blue (Blue Cross and Blue Sheild) I believe is the only one. Unsure on that though. And, because of that, opening up States where insurences can compete with each other across States will drive costs down and make it so its not possible for one State to have no insurence companies as its nationally. But, my worry is with pre-exisiting conditions. I do like smaller government in many ways but leaving that fully in the State's hands worries me. Not 100% sure why, as if someone said "the States have to" it would still worry me so maybe that is just me but thats that.

But, overall, I don't watch a lot of national or even local news. Just what I catch here and there from my dad watching Fox News here (I personally prefer CNN. Its just what he watches. He and I differ greatly in in polical views) so I haven't really had a chance to form an opinion.

Normally I am about as dead center as one can be.

I think, overall, everyone needs to give it some time. I didn't vote for Obama but gave him the same chance I am giving Trump and didn't have an opinion about Obama as a President this early. At least we need to stop this great divide and ripping each other up. I always overhear some sort of fight on Fox News (thus why I don't watch the shit) but lately, thats all that happens and its just nonscense. Why can't we disagree in a civil manner? And maybe that is my difference of "agree to dissagree" vs "complatency" as I don't mind us disagreeing at all. Disagreement breeds new developments of all sorts. New ideas. Etc. But do it in a much more civil manner.

 

[anthony]

I think American posters forget that there are laws on other places that prohibit freedom of speech. We, on the other hand, are protected under our first amendment to be able to express whatever we want.

I wanted to touch on this as part of US politics, as this exact ignorance from Americans is why many outside America, don't take America seriously, and they laugh at the rhetoric BS that Americans spread and believe.

Other countries have constitutional rights to free speech. The difference is that said countries don't flout it as though fact, because they realise it has limitations.

========================================

Americans do not have a right to free speech as you have claimed. Reading that right, within the context of the amendment, is completely false, in fact.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petitition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The United States Bill of Rights: First 10 Amendments to the Constitution

It does not say you have the right to say whatever you want without consequence.

1. If you stand in an airport and say "I have a bomb," then guess what your freedom of speech just earned you? A lengthy criminal jail sentence.
2. If you walk into the FBI and tell them you're going to kill someone, guess what your freedom just earned you? Jail again.
3. Go and make false, unproven, statements against another person, and see what civil proceeding impose upon your freedom of speech.

You're being very ignorant to say such a thing IMHO. Other countries have these exact same rights to free speech within constitutions, we just aren't raised to be ignorant to the facts of imposed limitations. Schooling teaches you that you have rights to certain things, but other things will get you in trouble. As do parents teach their children the differences in said countries. America is super ignorant about these things from an outside perspective.

========================================

Americans do not have a right to bear arms.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Same source.

I'm not even getting into this one, other than citing: "State level laws vary significantly in their form, content, and level of restriction."

Ummm... shit... your rights are factually infringed, as each state has restrictions.

Far from a right to bear arms. If every American has such right, then every American could legally own a firearm under such constitutional rights. That is not the case. More ignorance of the facts vs what a constitutional entry cites. Get caught with a firearm you do not have the right to have, off to jail you go again. Awesome rights here, by the way. (sarcasm)

Gun laws in the United States by state - Wikipedia

========================================

I could keep going all day with this... same end result. Constitutional rights had a time and place. In modern society, many laws have been entered that outdate such rights in totalitarian, amending initial, simpler claims of rights in simpler times of living.

American politics have banned anyone with a felony from voting. Even our criminals are required to vote by law here. We don't tell them they have a right to vote, then take it away from them under another provision. That is the difference in our societies and upbringing. We don't bullshit kids into believing things that are not factual, so they grow up perpetuating such rhetoric nonsense in false beliefs.

Good thing this thread is called US Politics... because your political system has you bamboozled about your rights as an American. You're sprouting rights you actually don't have.

 

[joeylittle]

For me, it always comes down to this: The USA is a baby, as far as countries go. It's a very large land mass, heavily populated, and not at all very old, comparatively speaking. The people who shaped this country were, to a man, incredibly ambitious. Whether it was ambition in politics, war, or commerce - it took a lot of effort to get here and even more to succeed here.

(Unless of course you were brought here as property - then, you likely suffered much, much more and worked even harder.)

But just like the youngest sibling - or like a toddler - we are still very inexperienced, demanding, and our self is at the center of our universe.

The last few decades have brought massive growing pains, both in our international and domestic experiences. I don't expect that to end anytime soon.

I'm not at all anti-my country. I live in it. And I do believe there is something unique to the American identity - just as all nations have unique identities - and there's a lot about that identity that is good, and to be built upon.

But we are also an immature nation, still wrestling with a democratic structure that was never intended to last this long.

So I feel a little weird when we make too much of ourselves, or don't know our history as well as one might hope. And I'm generalizing, of course.

My sincere hope is that US government will revolve/evolve from within. Perhaps the seismic shifts and struggles will ultimately help hammer out something that we can build on more effectively. Change never happens in a complacent environment.

 

[anthony]

Change never happens in a complacent environment.

I don't this this is restricted to the US. It seems many countries are fighting complacency right now, evolving due to the diversity of the www, how easily accessible information is at a global level and reach, understanding more than ever how good / bad others have it from location to location. Global economic concerns which are infancy at best and will likely take a hundred years to work out and stabilise. World health, growth, sustainability, the list goes on. Global problems affecting every nation.

 

[LuckiLee]

I was watching something recently, and I remember them saying that Trump has talked shit about every single...

Hey @anthony research the Ukrainian pipeline.... :/

 

[Deleted member 41765]

But just like the youngest sibling - or like a toddler - we are still very inexperienced, demanding, and our self is at the center of our universe.

I very much want to share this optimism, but at this point I am unable to do so. It almost reads like an excuse for American bad behavior and I, as an educated compassionate adult, do not condone said behavior. Sigh...

Let me try a more personal note. I have a friend who lives several blocks away. Two days ago she found a swastika carved into the sidewalk in front of her house. Yes, she is Jewish. Yes, she also has two children under the age of 8. I cannot begin to describe the effect this had on her. I cannot begin to describe the effect the ongoing hate mongering is having on so many of our lives.

 

[Deleted member 41765]

Change never happens in a complacent environment.

This I definitely agree with... Thank you.

 

[joeylittle]

It almost reads like an excuse for American bad behavior

Ah - I did not intend it that way, at all. I think it's just a fact. And I wish more Americans had an awareness of our junior status in this regard, and showed more respect to other nations.

 

[Deleted member 41765]

I have noted the clarification, yet still harbor small cries of incredulity, as what we think of as "fact" in this country has clearly proven itself to be entirely subjective (yes, uneccesary sarcasm) And, as we can't even respect ourselves, a country beautifully laden with other nations, how on earth are we to extend respect at this point in time?

I very much appreciate your initiation of this thread. Thank you.