News Us politics - read first post before comment

[Deleted member 541]

Out of 20,000 peaceful protesters in Boston Ma today, Trump just has to tweet that MANY anti Police agitators are giving the police a problem and he congratulated the police. Not true from what the news is saying. Yes a few arrest have been made, but really 20,000 and only a few have been arrested?!?!?!?!?! Seriously he has to tweet about this in a BAD LIGHT, but couldn't tweet about the Nazi's, KKK, and the rest the other day and how bad they were?!?!?!?! Really shows his true colors in tweets like this!!!!!!

 

[Deleted member 41765]

@She Cat At least one arrest is a confirmed "free speech" protestor!

 

[Deleted member 541]

@ShikibuZ Ok, and trump just had to tweet that MANY protesters have been arrested... How do the rest of government let this go on and on day after day, when they can SEE and READ how awful this guy is!!!! I just don't understand what it's going to take for the republicans to do SOMETHING!!!!!

 

[Deleted member 541]

27 arrest out of 20,000+ people that protested. And the president tweeted that MANY were arested. Not sure what he would say if hundreds had been arrested?!? He exaggerates when it's to his benefit, and downgrades when it's not. Sickening!!!!!

 

[hodge]

MSNBC is now reporting about 40,000 counterprotesters and a few dozen free speech protesters in Boston. This leads me to wonder if they didn't get many people because so many might be afraid of being fired. I've seen stories of a guy who was fired after he was shown to be at the Nazi melee in Charleston. And the protest at Google in LA was basically called off. I don't know if that was because they didn't get many people.

It does my heart good to see the proponents of love so vastly outnumbering the proponents of hate, but also worrying to me if the latter are afraid to show up and thus end up feeling even more oppressed and angry, and thus become even more dangerous.

Thoughts?

 

[Deleted member 41765]

It is my hope that these hate groups cannot become more dangerous in the face of such overwhelming opposition? A man in my city was fired last weekend, due to a community based outcry.

And please, do not refer to the rally as free speech without quotes. The speaker line up in Boston is proof enough of a white supremacist agenda that had little to do with "protecting free speech" and more to do with propagating hate. To which thousands of us (and hopefully millions) are opposed.

That said, I am also terrified at what may happen here next weekend...

And I just read this and feel even more conflicted:

jackkornfield.com/time-for-truth-and-reconciliation/?platform=hootsuite

 

[hodge]

Sorry for not including the scare quotes. I figured everyone on this thread would see them without me typing them. My bad.

I read the essay you just posted. What he writes is what I was getting at.

Or, as MLK said it: "Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." Not that I am able to love neo-Nazis, white supremacists, et al, but I am trying to think of how to be in order to not encourage their hate, which could destroy us all.

 

[Deleted member 41765]

@hodge The essay seemed like what you were getting at, and @scout86 as well. I am unsure (but have an uncomfortable idea) of what is holding me back from embracing this viewpoint. It is obviously a part of my worldview or I wouldn't be able to consider it at all (very BIG *sigh*)...

 

[hodge]

It is a freaking hard row to hoe, @ShikibuZ. Be gentle with yourself and be satisfied with yourself that you are grappling with all this, just like so many of us. And who knows what the answer is in this particular situation. But that we are grappling with it, as it seems most of us on this thread are familiar with the slow and painful, though steady victories of some kind of compassion toward those who hate, is not a bad thing.

Just to try to be clear (and clarify my own thoughts about all this), I am not for appeasement by any stretch. I am for trying to understand where these haters are coming from and advocating any action that will minimize the reasons for their hatreds. I really, really don't want to see a bunch of people lose their lives because of a failure to acknowledge their feelings without supporting them. Does that make any sense? I mean, we can't support their ideologies, but is there a way we can acknowledge their feelings and try to nudge them toward their better selves?

 

[hodge]

Cripes. I just read over my last post and realized this could probably have been written by a moderate Muslim grappling with how to deal with radical violent Muslims.

I don't know the best path right now. I just know I don't want to see another civil war.

 

[Deleted member 41765]

I am not for appeasement by any stretch.

Of course, I understand this.

is there a way we can acknowledge their feelings and try to nudge them toward their better selves?

This is such a major question for me. I've too many friends, and with their permission I am permitted to add PoC, that are not interested in the perpetuation of the hate they've had to endure ALL of their lives, only to have this dramatic uptick in the last several months. A black woman, a friend, and a single mother in my trauma therapy group is simply devastated and, well re-traumatized. Another native american friend is simply incredulous. These two women in particular, whose voices have been ignored, marginalized and terrorized, add the verve of my response here of late. I'm not sure I want to acknowledge "their" (right wing etc etc) "feelings." What is happening has a generational and institutional aspect that is going to be damn hard to dismantle and it all make me so so sad, and yes, so so angry.

All this to say, I don't know the best path either.

Thanks to all for the dialogue and the acceptance/tolerance of my anger.

PS. I was just gently reminded to include my friend/neighbor who had a swastika carved into the sidewalk in front of her home several months ago which I believe was mentioned on this thread. And yes, she has two small children. And yes, she is Jewish, and lives in Berkeley.

 

[scout86]

and realized this could probably have been written by a moderate Muslim grappling with

Exactly.

but is there a way we can acknowledge their feelings and try to nudge them toward their better selves?

That is something we should be doing all over the world, and here too. We should have had that thinking in mind when we invaded Afghanistan. (Some people in the military actually did, but that's a different story.) We should have that thinking in mind in each and every peace keeping mission and international intervention. People on both sides have grievances. In any movement, you're going to have people who are sold out to the cause, what ever the cause is. Gandhi, MLK, Hitler, Goebbels.... but the followers are going to be a more diverse group. Even Nazi Germany, there were reasons Hitler had an appeal. People felt they'd been poorly used after WWl. Hitler fed into that discontent. He USED those people. They let themselves be used. They failed to stand up for better ideals. But he manipulated them and he used them. People are like that. Both the leaders and the followers.

Lincoln had the right idea in his second inaugural address.