Relationship Any luck/tips getting your issues resolved with your so?

[Never_falter2]

But doesn‘t square mean like „fair and honorable“, like he was square with him= he acted with honor?

Actually I always delete my cookies and if hubby walked in and asked me for my I-book now I would delete them.
Why? Because there is things I feel I cannot talk with him about or just after a long time of testing the water. One thing is him hurting my feelings.
Another reason is that I am afraid to hurt his feelings. My vet knows I write here, even knows the adress. I tell him we can discuss it if he wants too... but I ask him to first talk to me before reads what I writeand if we asks me what I write (sometimes happens) I tell him we would need wait for a quite minute and talk before I tell him... cause there are things that might hurt his feelings and I feel I need to guard his heart, to protect him.
My vet otoh does not discuss all of his feelings with me cause he feels I need to protect him.
Sometimes he is crying and will not tell me why cause he thinks it is not fair to burden me with things. There are things he only discusses with his buddies. Maybe he discussed trauma or ptsd with this woman???

 

[Never_falter2]

Another example my man and me sometimes meet with his buddy (and I think buddy has ptsd too), than they send me and his wife out so they could talk about men‘s stuff.
Do they talk ptsd? Do they crack dirty jokes? I have no idea but I trust himmelt to have a homosexual affair or gossip about me. It is basically about trust.

 

[scout86]

he hasn't been able to talk about it to a point that I'm 100%

What would he have to say to make you 100% comfortable? I'm wondering if some of the problem is that he doesn't know the answer to that.

I say that from personal experience. The last guy I went out with seemed like he had to know where I was, what I was doing, and who I was with at all times. If I was late getting home from work, I had to be prepared to defend myself. (And my job was such that I never really did know what time I'd get home.) And, adequately explains myself was something I never seemed to be able to do. Which led to me doing all I could to avoiding the conversation. Which, now that I think about it, probably just stressed him even more. In the end, our needs for control and autonomy were just too different and the relationship ended.

 

[Hojay]

Actually I always delete my cookies and if hubby walked in and asked me for my I-book now I would delete them.

That's fair enough. But what would happen if he saw you deleting them? Wouldn't there be some sort of conversation about that? I'd think so. And he'd probably walk away knowing why you deleted them, what that means, and what he can expect in the future.

I've read some of your posts around here and you seem to have one of those rare unicorn PTSD partners that doesn't tend to lash out and explode. I do, so that complicates the matter of having necessary conversations that feel good to both people in the end.

What you're speaking about are all examples of why we hide what we hide. And all those reasons are fair enough. There's a difference between privacy and secrecy, though. What you describe all falls well under the blanket of legitimate privacy. It veers into secrecy though when there can't be any discussion about it. I hope that makes sense.

PS: "being square" can mean a lot of things, also being kinda stiff, conservative, no fun, and, well, spiessig...:)

What would he have to say to make you 100% comfortable?

I think just the mere fact of being able to have a normal conversation where I can feel heard and acknowledged, with something of a perspective and plan for the future, as well as a rudimentary explanation of his behavior, would be enough to make me feel comfortable. This isn't about whether or not he cheated on me with that woman. It's more broad than that. It's about finding some middle/common ground in terms of how we view privacy, how we view secrecy, and what we vow to do and not do in that regard.

The last guy I went out with seemed like he had to know where I was, what I was doing, and who I was with at all times.

Oh, I think that's pretty overboard, and very controlling to say the least. I don't really want to know all that stuff. I do want to know what is up with deleting messages from women, and what that means in terms of his trust in me and vice versa. I was raised to believe that everything we have to do in secret is wrong. If it's not wrong per se, then we at least owe our partners an explanation as to why we would like to keep the information private. Again, the difference between privacy and secrecy. All trust building conversations to have.

My goal is to find a way to have the conversation I need, not so much to figure out if it's justified that I need to have that conversation. I feel pretty justified in needing it at this point. I just need new tools to be able to address topics that are important to me.

 

[Hojay]

Your rundown here made me chuckle. It's funny, cause it's true :) I'm your and his issue rolled into one big issue enchilada.

You don't want to talk to him about what he did wrong. You want reassurance that it won't happen again.

Yes! Though it's a bit of both here. To feel reassured that it won't happen again, I need to feel like he is hearing me about what he did wrong. Though I think he somewhat knows what he did wrong here, he hasn't given me the time to express the full picture (without him freaking out that is.) It's not about being in touch with other women, it's being sneaky about it and hiding things from me in that way that's the real issue. I'm not his mother. He's not my teenage son that needs to hide his porn stash under the bed. We're equals. So after establishing that, I can start feeling reassured it won't happen again...

Just how do I address this when the minute I bring up this conversation, he's on the verge of panic? Obviously, a panicked, "no, no, it will never happen again" just to get the conversation over with...wouldn't be very satisfying either. I'd be satisfied with that if it were about leaving his dirty underwear around. Not so much when it comes to trust...

My bad is that I don't know what I want him to say. How do I want him to fix it?

I don't know what I want him to say either. But then again, I don't know if I have to. He has to take responsibility and find a way to communicate. I can't do his thinking for him. I'll know when it's fixed and he'll know when it's fixed. All that requires conversation, not me lecturing him about how things ought to be. From my experience, people agree to everything under the sun, then do what they want to in secret anyway. Only way I can feel reassured in this situation is if I get his stance/position/thoughts/boundaries out in is own words. If that makes sense.

give him a written list of bullet sentences and let him go read it somewhere else and then get back to you the next day.

That's a great idea I need to revisit. I wrote him a letter outlining my concerns and he promised to respond. Still waiting, two months later. He gets triggered thinking about everything, even with time and when I'm not around. So he starts replying, but then stops to tend to his panic concerns...and he does that for so long, my issues are old news by the time he's balanced. So to refresh his memory, I bring it up again, and 9 out of 10 times, the cycle restarts or I get breadcrumbs of a conversation that just aren't satisfying. So in a way, I've tried this and it doesn't make a big difference. He still doesn't address it in the end. Hardest part is that he says he is "trying," which keeps me hanging around waiting and hoping...and very confused about why it's not happened yet (because dude sure can go to work and meet people socially, but not answer my letter, hm.)

I can try the bullet points again, but I have my doubts. I was thinking there might be new, different, tweaked tools I could use to broach these difficult subjects...

 

[Buttercup]

Oh I am so in this place right now!

I wish I could help. I can't even get to the bullet points stage although it would just be one - talk to me!!!

 

[Hojay]

I can't even get to the bullet points stage

You mean he wouldn't be open to reading the letter at all?

 

[Buttercup]

Oh yes he would actually. Maybe I will do that after all! Good idea. Still would only have one bullet :)

 

[Buttercup]

Can I ask what exactly is triggering him and causing him to panic? Do you know that?

 

[scout86]

I don't know what I want him to say either. But then again, I don't know if I have to. He has to take responsibility and find a way to communicate. I can't do his thinking for him. I'll know when it's fixed and he'll know when it's fixed.

If he grew up in a situation where he got in trouble for saying or doing the "wrong thing" in a way that it got to be rolled into the whole PTSD package, this is going to be tough. And, maybe, "triggering". It's a situation where he knows he's done something that's made you angry, he wants to fix it, but he's not sure what would do that. His options seem to be keep guessing until he gets it right, or run. Having another choice would be nice. Having it clear what it is would be awesome.

 

[Hojay]

Oh yes he would actually. Maybe I will do that after all! Good idea. Still would only have one bullet

Worth a shot! That bullet point would be, why aren't you talking to me? Or more nuanced, specific things?

Can I ask what exactly is triggering him and causing him to panic? Do you know that?

Great question, cause it's all such a mess and intertwined. According to him what triggers him are: discussions about hiding things (because 1. he hid his own abuse as a child and 2. he is currently keeping a few things private from me that have nothing to do with this, but are highly triggering and messy,) not being believed (because he wasn't believed as a child,) and being blamed for things (because he blames himself for his own abuse.) So really, the whole thing. Only problem is, he DID hide something, he IS making it very hard to believe him, and he IS to blame for this situation, so I really can't sugarcoat this to an extent that protects him from his own cognitive distortions.

 

[Hojay]

If he grew up in a situation where he got in trouble for saying or doing the "wrong thing" in a way that it got to be rolled into the whole PTSD package, this is going to be tough.

See ^^ for a list of the actual triggers, but he grew up in an environment that didn't believe him, where nobody listened, and he had to hide his own abuse. So in a way, this conversation is triggering all the stuff he WRONGLY blamed himself for all this life (abuse,) with the difference being that he actually did something wrong and needs to take responsibility.

Having another choice would be nice. Having it clear what it is would be awesome.

My approach has been to ask him very specific questions, so he doesn't have to do that much thinking about what part/aspect he needs to address. Doesn't get me very far. Trying to think of how I can give him other choices...hm...