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Neurofeedback: anyone else doing, done it or curious?

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Swift

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Hey all,
I thought I'd open a thread about this, considering I've found very little from personal experience about neurofeedback.
I'd be interested to hear from anyone who's doing it or done it, or wants to know more about the process.

I used to be an EEG tech, so I'm quite capable of explaining the rudiments of the tech side, and I'm actually doing it, so I'm quite happy to describe the experience, what's worked for me, etc etc.

It's not a miracle cure, but it's done good stuff for me. I have read every previous thread on the topic. I'm a bit of a one for a detailed explanation, but I don't want to do a massive dump of how it works unless anyone's keen to know.
 
Yup, I'd love more info on it too.
You and I have talked before about me having tried it and not having gotten it to work, and I'm still really interested in re-trying it one day.
 
I've read Sebern Fisher's book on neuro feedback for developmental trauma

It has probably the best descriptions of developmental trauma and cptsd that I've ever seen

I can highly recommend it.

I'd love to be able to get my own gear to try it myself

I used to be an EEG tech, so I'm quite capable of explaining the rudiments of the tech side, and I'm actually doing it, so I'm quite happy to describe the experience, what's worked for me, etc etc.
That is sooooooooooooooooooo cool:)
 
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She's a cool lady
Shes been friends with Marsha linehan, since they were both locked up in the same hospital, as disturbed teenagers

And it's Fisher who got Bessel van der Kolk into neuro feedback

Just while I'm quoting guy macphearson podcasts
He interviewed Severn Fisher in podcast 56
 
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Can definitely second Sebern Fisher's book, it was really good. She's actually my T's supervisor, which is pretty cool.

So - the results are, I think my baseline mood has improved, I think some of my physical symptoms have gone down, I think more clearly on a good day, and I haven't had an unprovoked major, uh, incident (dissociation is a thing for me, and dissociated me likes to injure itself - broken feet, broken wrists, broken toes, broken fingers. Only one incident this year and I was stressed to the max.) Also - touch wood, no depressive episodes, I have MDD and get about one a year, it's August now and I'm okay.

When I do it - body relaxation, clearer, calmer thoughts for 2-3 days, better sequential processing, generally less dissociation. My brain is improving at neurofeedback, I'm able to get to the targeted range more quickly and sustain it for longer. So, it's working by the metrics as well as by my experience.

It works on the principles of neuroplasticity. Trauma, particularly long-term or developmental trauma, effects your brain in negative ways. Previously the medical profession thought that once damage was done to the brain, it stayed that way. We now know this to be incorrect.

A PTSD brain differs from a typical brain in a few major ways. Firstly, our amygdalas and our back brain, the stuff concerned with survival, is larger and more active than a typical brain. Result: we spend more time and energy surviving, not thinking.
Secondly, our hippocampus, that does the where/when function, is smaller to make room for that - those structures I call "lizard brain", because we share them with lizards. Result: we are unable to use our hippocampus to tell us that the danger is past, not present.
Thirdly, our sensory processing is generally overactive, and wires to our lizard brain instead of our "thinking" brains, so we're in a state of survival-based reactivity. Result: triggers, hypervigilance.
Fourth, our cognitive processing takes a back seat to all this other shit.

So, on EEG, our brain rhythms are "off" - ie, not within the ranges for an ideal brain.

Other mental health symptoms can be categorized as "overarousal" or "underarousal."
Brainwaves are measured in Hertz - basically, they undulate like very mathematical skipping ropes. They cycle at a particular range - check out some EEGs to see the pattern, if you're interested.

So, in overarousal, they're going "too fast". Overarousal covers anxiety, anger, HV etc. In underarousal, they're going too slow - depression, dissociation, foggy thinking. The training can help both..
 
Thank you, Swift!

I absolutely want to learn more. With fairly recent head trauma, I’ve been studying a lot about neuroplasticity to not only help my brain heal from physical injuries, but to cope with severe neurological pain and trauma. What is working for head injury trauma is also significantly helping a lifetime of trauma = PTSD.

No one local does Neurofeedback, and I cannot travel due to injuries, but I have prescriptions to lease and buy the equipment. I haven’t done it yet: I’m desperate to heal, but just for 1 month’s rent costs over $1,000.00 USD. To purchase is over $10,000.00 USD.

I’d really like to learn more, as that’s a lot of money to lose if it doesn’t make a dent into the severe pain / trauma / re-wiring.
Thank you for your teaching and insights.
 
Several years ago, I was fortunate to have the chance to barter via a local time bank for some sessions with a NeurOptimal brand neurofeedback practitioner. It's not the typical neurofeedback process I'd been used to reading about, but at the time I was offered it, I was struggling like a mofo in both my professional and personal life and had exhausted most all the typical methods of seeking insurance approved professional help, experiencing the unfortunate effects of being made much worse instead of better, so I would have tried any damn thing at that point....and am damn glad I did.

It doesn't train the brain via doing exercises and such and there's no homework to do in addition to the sessions. All you do is get comfortable (I use a zero gravity chair with a blankie over me and an eye mask on), get connected (1 ground wire clip on right ear lobe, an electrode clip on the top of each ear, and two head electrodes placed on each side of your head in a specific area...using electrode paste to secure them), put the ear buds in, and start the program on what I call the brain machine (it's a laptop). You hear music that intermittently stops and gets a subtle squelch-like noise throughout the song. The sessions are either 35 minutes or 90 minutes long. I've only done the 35 minute sessions as sitting still for that long isn't my scene. I like to set an intention before I hook up by silently bringing attention to and requesting help in making some forward progress in an area I'm struggling the most with at the time of my session.

The practitioner I worked with had the professional set-up and had been professionally trained in using it to help others, so when I used hers, she was able to share with me the brain patterns feedback on a screen as I was hooked up, which I found fascinating, especially in how different they were each time. However, I tried not to get too caught up in the technical aspects as I was more interested in actual application of how my life was or wasn't changing as I used it.

There were no big "A-Ha!" moments when I used it...ever. But there were many subtle yet very significant improvements over a period of time (I did 6 sessions in about a 3 month span) that would just happen on their own and then I'd realize it after the fact. I did a few more sessions after that and was blown away at the ongoing results, albeit slow and subtle. I had also started learning more about the gut/brain connection right after bartering for brain machine time and began my food experimentation, which started with eliminating gluten, so that naturally played a big part in bringing more positive changes, too.

Areas I noticed a total transition in were things like no longer eating ice cream and other junk late at night, no more sodas and sweet tea, no longer biting someone's head off in response to being annoyed/frustrated/triggered/etc., no longer slamming doors and drawers, no longer staying up with my face glued to a screen until the sun came up, no longer kicking my own ass via self-talk as harshly as I used to, etc.

I've heard this particular neurofeedback technique be described as more of a brain enhancer than "fixer", so to speak...prompting and initiating it to do what it already knows rather than trying to teach it new tricks, so to speak. I don't explain things very well in my own words at times, so please forgive me if it sounds like a jumbled mess.

Here's a couple videos that explain it much better than I do. I'm not affiliated with these folks at all, have never reached out to them for more info, and this is not the place I discovered the machine at, but their process is very similar to the way it was used with me via the assessment tools and such and I feel they do well in explaining it:

NeurOptimal Neurofeedback Introduction Part 1
NeurOptimal Neurofeedback Introduction Part 2
NeurOptimal Neurofeedback Introduction Part 3

It helped me so much that my hubby graciously bought me one the following x-mas....a personal version that doesn't have all the data readouts/data collection/etc. At the time he bought mine, the cost was $5,000. It came with 300 sessions on it. As with most of the tools I have for self-care, I don't treat myself to them nearly as much as I should. Still working on that in my head and heart space.

I tend to wait until damn near crisis mode before I feel I'm worth the effort in many areas of my life. I've started making an appt. on the calendar to remind myself to use the tools I have right under my nose and it seems to help. It's almost like I'm saving up the sessions just in case....but now o'clock is the best time ever to get thy ass in gear, or should I say brain...lol. Thanks for the reminder and for prompting a great discussion about it.
 
I had it done long ago and would love to redo.

It got my brain to clear up by tweaking the waves to be more balanced. Mine was 21 electrodes and i did it weekly for about 1 year. As a case study so no cost.

The QeeG is very important for baselin and they maydo eyes open and closed.
 
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