Dominance and submission

[whiteraven]

There's also a whole gray area between complete dominance and complete submission. Like, my pets and me. I'm the big one but they basically rule the household.

As someone who has been in a D/s relationship and also wrote my Master's thesis on it, I can definitely say that's generally the way submission works. The submissive has far more true power than the Dominant. It's a bit different outside of these relationships or in extreme D/s relationships, but that is not unusual at all.

Ideally everything in BDSM is explicitly negotiated, but of course the world works that way only rarely.

We had a relationship like this. Truly amazing. We talked and negotiated about absolutely everything and it was the safest relationship I've ever had.

 

[Mach123]

So I'm changing things and change is hard. I've been the submissive partner for 30 years but the lines are blurry because I'm the male. She never allows it to seem like she's the dominant partner, she hides it but, my theories are proving out now we stopped having sex.

It has not been long. I've always wondered about it meaning I "knew," I just didn't want to face it, I was afraid. At the end of the day I always come back to whatever is going on with me (or anyone) I want it that way even if that want is far below the level of consciousness.

If I don't want her form sex anymore, if I don't need her to love me, then her power over me is gone. She always scared the hell out of me with this, and we're married, which I take seriously and I wouldn't cheat (no one ever forced me) because I think that's low.

So now we're not having sex and suddenly I want it that way because now she can't hurt me anymore. Don't get me wrong I think it's going to continue, I'm just going to re negotiate the terms. I don't know how it's going to shake out or what it's going to look like but it's going to be different.

This is all from getting stronger in therapy. Maybe it's just getting older? My best friend is doing it with his wife also, his sharing with me is helping so much. He started saying "no" to her about sex because like in my relationship, it was always on her terms, she's the dominant one.

f*ck that. : )

 

[Mach123]

Boundaries are such a big part of this which keeps coming back to me but I don't know anything about it. I tried one book which was a flop. We have been experimenting with it in therapy and I can go like a whole session and I'm like whatever I'm just me and then it's like let's talk about girl me or the part of me that identifies as a girl and it's right there. That boundary is weak or not there and I'm totally defenceless, stark staring, like a deer in the headlights or a possum. Rolling over in front of the onrushiing cars as if that'd be a defence somehow. All this other stuff comes from there like thats submissive me and I have to hide that but then people can sense you're hiding. It's hard to feel safe when you know someone might see you anytime and you'll be standing there all submissive going "please don't and please do" at the same time.

I understood my behaviour at my last attempt at being outside the home and I saw that I wanted to be abused. Everyone in our family with the exception perhaps of my wife seems to thrive on negative attention. It's a work in progress.

I attended a 'night of healing' my therapist put on. It was interesting but left me ambivalent. Mixed feelings.

 

[Mach123]

The 5 Types of People You Need to Get Out of Your Life

Look at the picture lol! There she is, my dream girl!

 

[Mach123]

"And so the king is once again my guest." Jesus Christ Superstar.

Watching Tom and the Patriots being dominant last night had a certain charm. I felt bad for the poor quarterback on the other side, but he'll recover. I think he got knocked around more in that game than he had in his whole career.

I wanna "start on this" (shit) again because it's so central an issue (for me).

So I wrote a long rant and erased it (from here) and sent it to the therapist. Let her deal with it (me). At least she gets paid (a little something) for her trouble. : )

 

[whiteraven]

I've been the submissive partner for 30 years but the lines are blurry because I'm the male. She never allows it to seem like she's the dominant partner, she hides it but, my theories are proving out now we stopped having sex.

Being male in a Dominant/submissive relationship (and I recognize your relationship doesn't seem to fit the standard D/s relationship) is usually not an issue. Lines may be blurry, but gender doesn't usually play a role. The feeling that it does may, but that's an issue with self-respect/esteem and comfort in the role of submissive partner.

If I don't want her form sex anymore, if I don't need her to love me, then her power over me is gone.

This makes me think the submission is a *reaction* - to your history, to past abuse - rather than a healthy power exchange. You used the term "pathologically submissive," which I think is a great way to describe it.

So now we're not having sex and suddenly I want it that way because now she can't hurt me anymore.

I can so relate to this. Not only with sex, but with other physically painful stuff.

This is all from getting stronger in therapy. Maybe it's just getting older?

I think there is something to both. I am no longer in a relationship and since stopping the sex and then falling out of the relationship, I have learned so much about the abuse-submissive dynamic (we haven't worked on that specifically in therapy, but it just seems to have come naturally) - and it has not been a happy realization - and I doubt I will ever be involved again in that sort of partnership. The D/s stuff was fun in the moment, but when you're in the moment in a relationship, you rarely see the destructive aspects. And I do think getting older (and wiser?) definitely has something to do with that realization.

I do think there are aspects of submission that are very...hm, healing in a way. For me, I think I've surpassed that. My relationship never got abusive, but I now recognize my need to submit as part of my need to continue the people that were powerful over me as a child.

Don't get me wrong I think it's going to continue, I'm just going to re negotiate the terms. I don't know how it's going to shake out or what it's going to look like but it's going to be different.

This sounds like a positive step. I have been wondering if you think you will ever grow out of this relationship?

 

[Mach123]

I'm very submissive. it's nice and it's more like what I think of as love than I ever have experienced. The only way I can think of to say it is, I don't feel I have to climb on top of her and all it means about me is I'm able.

All this is just my feelings and trying to work things out. We've been married thirty years. I'm in love still. : )

 

[Mach123]

Being male in a Dominant/submissive relationship (and I recognize your relationship doesn't seem to fit the standard D/s relationship) is usually not an issue. Lines may be blurry, but gender doesn't usually play a role. The feeling that it does may, but that's an issue with self-respect/esteem and comfort in the role of submissive partner.



This makes me think the submission is a *reaction* - to your history, to past abuse - rather than a healthy power exchange. You used the term "pathologically submissive," which I think is a great way to describe it.



I can so relate to this. Not only with sex, but with other physically painful stuff.



I think there is something to both. I am no longer in a relationship and since stopping the sex and then falling out of the relationship, I have learned so much about the abuse-submissive dynamic (we haven't worked on that specifically in therapy, but it just seems to have come naturally) - and it has not been a happy realization - and I doubt I will ever be involved again in that sort of partnership. The D/s stuff was fun in the moment, but when you're in the moment in a relationship, you rarely see the destructive aspects. And I do think getting older (and wiser?) definitely has something to do with that realization.

I do think there are aspects of submission that are very...hm, healing in a way. For me, I think I've surpassed that. My relationship never got abusive, but I now recognize my need to submit as part of my need to continue the people that were powerful over me as a child.



This sounds like a positive step. I have been wondering if you think you will ever grow out of this relationship?

Yes the power dynamic and me being a child is very real. I have only just allowed myself to experience it. I can't call it healthy or healing yet. I just have to do it for right now. IDK why it's so important.

 

[Mach123]

I found I was thinking about this last night and IDK if there's "more to it" or what. I see myself as the girl or bottom and that's to say, the submissive.
I'm not saying the woman is always submissive. In general though the way she responds to the man is she submits. This however can be an aggressive act. Then there are same sex couples.
If I had to be something I'm most like a gay woman. (I would have said this but couldn't, the therapist said it though? She said it was ok if I felt like that) There are reasons I say that and it's hard to talk about? I read a post on masturbation and I still can't talk about it. I thought it was brave to talk about it? IDK why I'm squeamish about certain things.
In sex, I want to do something "for" you and if you want, you can do something "to" me and I don't like men.
That about sums it up.

 

[Mach123]

I have to go back and read through this again. I know some sh*t got stirred up in here awhile back and I just skimmed over it but I might be ready to get back to it now.

My wife was kidding with me on her way out. I was so sweet and I charmed her. She's always been vulnerable to that. I might not get sex out of it (right away) but I can get a lot. I measure everything by sex and the time in between. My mood goes out the window after 3 days or so and I become vulnerable, (three days is the beginning, after a week I really feel it.) I need to speak real softly and never say anything that could stir up the sh*t and "don't answer evil with evil." I know when I'm getting to her because she relaxes enough to make a joke about herself. She has to feel very trusting of me to let herself do that.

Much of this comes from me however, and has to do with my behavior, which she responds to. More and more I just know that what I give her is what I get back.

This whole thing is about control and power is how another guy put it to me the other day. I liked those words. I like dominance and submission because I think that explains it better. My wife and the therapist always say "those are the wrong words to describe what you're talking about." They can't tell me what the right ones are.

 

[Mach123]

I have to be sweet and charming again today. Lol! Why wouldn't I always b?

Horny and ornery almost rhyme.

Saying mean stuff to her just gets me her meanness. That's not what I want.

She's always been a worthy opponent. Her mother was the queen, but my wife withstood her.

So when I say being sweet it means no fighting. Say whatever you want and lay out your concerns and needs. Say what you'll do and what you won't. Then walk away. No anger, don't express with any feeling, flat affect.

I remember making that speech to myself back when I was a kid trying to deal with my dad. He'd reduce me to yelling is a few minuets usually.

But I won't be reduced at least that's my attitude. My buddy has been telling me we lost the game 30 years ago and he's right but something in me is trying to stand up to it.

It's the phucking audacity that gets me and the hypocrisy. Of course she'll make no bones about saying we should go to that church I've hated all these years on Sunday morning.

Sometimes the "devil u don't" starts looking a lot less scary. I just keep telling myself to remain calm lol.

 

[ChildofGod]

Goes along with whatever makes you happy. Rooting for you either way. I like your idea.