Bipolar Bipolar I, with severe mania, but no depression - having a hard time finding people to relate to - feeling isolated, input/advice wanted

[Sweetleaf]

I was diagnosed last month (IIRC) with Bipolar 1 disorder - due to a severe manic episode, that lasted well over a week, probably 2-ish weeks.

It was really disabling feeling. I was completely squirrel-brained, mind going a million miles an hour in all sorts of stupid directions, bunch of stupid ideas and urges, never able to stick to a single thing or even remember what I was just doing, what I am doing, etc. So forgetful, so unable to focus - so dependent on others to not go do stupid shit.... and I have almost no people I can trust, IRL. So often it's internet people being my safety net. Even though nothing particularly bad happened, I still feel so f*cking embarrassed, gah. All that f*cking manic rambling. My pdoc seeing me like that.... ugh.

I feel isolated because of this: recently, I have been reading up on Bipolar disorder - but everything I read, it feels like it focuses so much on the depression - the swinging between the two extremes - which of course, must be really bad... but I don't feel like that happens to me. I have severe mania, but then I don't crash into deep depression... I do have a crash, but it's kinda like, feeling worn out/burnt out for a few days. Any depressed thoughts/feelings/cognitions seem to be related to my PTSD, and they come and go, it's not like a steady-state sorta thing. On top of that, it's very minor depression I think. No suicidal thoughts, no urges to self-harm. No loss of desire to live, will to live, etc.

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So, when I search for information on bipolar... it feels like I get all this stuff talking about depression, with brief things talking about mania - and much of it seems to be written for people on the less-severe end of the spectrum in regards to mania... some of it even feels like it's shit-talking people like me :/ or worsening the stigma of severe mania... even outright shit-talking people with bipolar 1 and severe mania :(

I'm getting lots of information about bipolar.... but not so much that I fully relate to... I relate to the mania bits but, I'm really like, wishing there was more focus/information on the severe mania side of things. It feels like the depression is talked about more, at least to me. Then the mania bits are towards the end of things, and feel almost like a side-note.

I feel really alone in the not-having-significant-depression thing, while having it really bad in regards to mania (when it does happen - if left unchecked it'd roll into psychosis very easily and probably relatively fast)

I know I'm not alone but like... aaagh. It feels like everything is geared towards people on different places on the bipolar spectrum, rather than at this extreme end that I feel like I'm on.

It's just so frustrating trying to find out more about this disorder, when most people who have it don't seem to have the same "flavor" of it as me, and most literature and stuff is geared towards the average person with bipolar (which makes sense, but still, it kinda hurts for it to feel so hard to find info/people to relate to strongly)

Maybe I will wind up having the depression shit kick in some time in my future but, right now, and for my whole life so far - depression hasn't been a big thing for me. It was there in my trauma, due to the stressors and traumas themselves, "environmental" shit anyone would get depressed from.

But for right now - there is no significant depression, no swinging between mania and depression. Just swinging between "normal considering the PTSD and everything else" and "way too manic"

Anyone relate?

Anyone have any advice?

Any input or anything you want to say is welcome.

 

[blackemerald1]

Hey @Sweetleaf - Whilst you have described feeling that you are at the manic end of the spectrum more and don't hit the blunt end of depression right now.. it's still the same illness. I agree it must be quite frustrating to be unable to find you particular brand of BP. However isn't this the same for PTSD and other stuff. Like there can be a particular cluster of symptoms but not all people display all classic symptoms and not all the time?

Isn't BP about the high's being far too high or the low's being way too low? I think you would know more about this than me but I didn't think a major feature of the illness was the swings between the poles but the extremes of each pole?? Obviously there is a swing but when it does happen it's the severity of the poles (mood). Idk if any of that made sense...sorry?

Also, are you aware that your moods are not going to swing from extremely high to low in a set pattern? So you could find that you have a series of 'high's' with no lows for a really long time but then maybe (?) but not always, you may hit the depression and then you may stay in depression for ages or possibly normalise for a while. So it isn't that predictable.

^^This is why this is such a very serious illness Sweetleaf! Do not under-estimate it because it is quite dangerous.

Do you think the meds have actually stopped your mood from dropping through the floor before you would have hit depression or do you think you are oscillating from high to normal repeating that phase? It's so hard to guess I assume because you are taking the meds and they are working bc you are not hitting the high end so much now?

I can well imagine that BP is very isolating for you. I mean I know that ptsd is for me and I haven't found a way of fixing that. (yet).. :hug:

 

[ILoveLife]

I was an admin on a bipolar board for quite some time and I've seen all sorts of flavors of BP, trust me you are not alone.

What I think is happening is you still haven't gotten in tune with your moods yet, because it's cyclical and it's usually a few cycles a year, then it calms down to a few cycles every few years, then it fastens up again - unless you're a rapid cycler, which you're not.

I've seen you in a mixed episode for example, where you're manic and depressed at the same time. That's fairly common, and I urge you to read up on that because that's the most dangerous state of BP - mania gives the impression your invincible, while depression gives the impression you want to die.

My advice to you is, right now, start charting your moods. There are apps for that all over the app stores, and some websites too.
Some of them even allow you to connect your doctor to it, so they are also on the loop of your moods and your changes.
Another advise is do not read stuff online - particularly anything that is not written by professionals. Most bipolar foruns are a bit of a mess, but you can find a good one or two to ask some questions and feel more comfortable and less alone.

Situational depression in BP is depression none the less - what happens is, the trigger happens in the environment and the reaction is usually BP related - since that's how your brain is wired to react.
With therapy this can be mitigated and you can learn coping skills to handle it.

You're a bit of an anomaly for me particularly, because usually folks treat their BP on a long term and their PTSD when they're ready. You jumped right in to EMDR and I'm betting that destabilized you a bit, regarding BP, hence that manic episode.

Good news is, BP is one of the best mental illnesses to have if you really must have one and could choose :P If treated correctly, you can go years (decades even) without an episode. I know someone who spent 30 years without an episode.

So, I really urge you to think about this as something to manage on a daily basis, self care is super important like with any other mental health ailment.

 

[Sideways]

My advice to you is, right now, start charting your moods.

This. Can’t emphasise enough how important this is. Knowing your moods inside and out? The thoughts that you have and how they can indicate a mood change, the changes in daily function, triggers, symptoms, seasons, physical health input - all these factors are going to be impacting your mood. If you keep a record, you can be a real master at knowing your mood within a couple of years.

I have bipolar II, and having been hospital buddies with a few ladies who had bipolar I, I totally hear you with the scary great unknown that is mania. It surprised me as well how little support material that there was for mania.

I think possibly one of the reasons for that is that for a lot of people with bipolar I, the mania does slip into psychosis, and the support material is as much about treating psychosis as it is about mania. It’s incredibly important to catch your mania, like you did, before it gets that far. But if it does get that far, the treatment is oftentimes focused on treating the acute psychosis.

Try not to be freaked out by those words. They are scary, but we know quite a lot about treatment options for bipolar these days. My suggestion would be to start keeping a list of questions for your T, get proactive about treatment options, and ask your T about support resources that they would recommend.

 

[ILoveLife]

Oh and I did have one manic episode with psychosis - but it was due to drugs, not bipolar. Hence me having the bipolar dx for a while there. So, we relate (and we already knew that) in that sense.
And I do think you have depressions.

 

[Sweetleaf]

I suppose lately I have a bit down on myself and lacking in motivation, low confidence, uncertainty/doubt about the future - but this isn't like what depression has been for me in the past, so it's hard to smack a label on it for me, you know?

Also I'm on lamotrigine - maybe that's preventing it from swinging down too hard?

It just feels like a "bleh" rather than a "I wanna die" or "I hate living" etc. I definitely want to live lmao. But I guess I just don't have as much of a "f*ck yeah" factor about doing things I like to do.

If it is depression, it's very mild compared to what I've dealt within the past.

Most of the time though - I'd describe my mood as anxious. Full of worry.

Last appointment I asked my pdoc (since I know very little about bipolar) - "how do I know if lamotrigine is at the right dose?" and she said that it was mainly there to prevent me from swinging down into depression, and that once mania begins it's not really going to be too effective and I'll just need to take zyprexa alongside it till it clears.

Do I maybe need a higher dose of lamotrigine then, if I'm feeling "bleh"? I am given estrogen so it could be interacting and causing me to need more than the average 200mg.

Also considering I live with a childhood abuser - I think that is the source of the anxiety (PTSD and living with a major abuser from your past does not mix well lol) - and I've been kinda wondering if the anxiety has lead to a slight down-ness.

But yeah maybe you're right - maybe I am in a depression phase now? It just doesn't feel very extreme at all. It's not like the same kind of extreme as my mania. It's not like the depression I felt around February/march IIRC. (I dont know which month-ish it was, but I did make a thread in the depression subforum) - that was what I would call definite depression, feeling down to the point of not wanting to live.

I've seen you in a mixed episode for example, where you're manic and depressed at the same time

I think that was "dark manic" features coming alongside my "sunny manic" features. The irritability, anger - I didn't want to off myself at all during that time. I just was pissed at my mania, hating the feeling of it and how not-normal it was, how much it f*cked up my ability to function, upset at my abusers, upset that all that shit had to happen. Maybe I need to go back and read over stuff I wrote then but, gah. I don't really wanna do that hahaha.

I don't like seeing myself manic. Just.... so embarrassing.

I just read the words in the book I have, that my pdoc recommended, and really don't identify with what I'm reading, aside from the mania bits. From reading this stuff it feels almost like bipolar as viewed by most sufferers of it is primarily a depression problem.

Plus - depression is something that very often comes with PTSD - inside the same bipolar book, one thing I did like to read, was that not every bit of emotion someone bipolar has, has to do with their bipolar. Someone can be sad, mad, angry, happy, joyful, energetic, etc. without it necessarily being mania or depression related to bipolar. It can just be standard human emotions, or related to other mental illnesses.

My pdoc said that a lot of my negative feels right now seem to be related to my PTSD, and my living situation. I'll talk more about this subject with her tomorrow, maybe see about upping my lamotrigine, or if she thinks that even needs to be done.

The "down on myself" stuff I'm feeling right now feels very tied to the childhood trauma I'm trying to work on right now, in EMDR. Like the same sort of things that my mom made me feel as a kid, returned.

But if it's related to bipolar maybe I can make it go away faster lmao.

I'll see what my pdoc thinks.

Edit: also thanks to everyone for the input - a lot of it was useful.

Also I agree with @blackemerald1 on the "it doesnt always have to be a swing from one to the other" bit - I guess I need to clear some of my own preconceived notions on bipolar.

Also get more/different books on it lol.

Maybe find a book that focuses primarily on mania itself if I can.

To me that feels like the most severe part of my bipolar. The mania. The most potentially destructive part of my bipolar.

Depression does suck but, I feel like my past depressions have been much "safer" than my manias.

For me right now - I kind of view my bipolar as a "holy shit do everything you can to not go manic" kinda thing.

But yeah. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I just dont cycle into the deep depression so often/easily as others but it's still a thing.

 

[ILoveLife]

Being on meds is definitely a factor to not feel depressed.

 

[Sweetleaf]

Being on meds is definitely a factor to not feel depressed.

Very true. Lol. Yeah. Maybe without the lamotrigine I'd be in megadepression or something right now.

Since writing the last post my mood has picked up, feeling less bleh. More okay. I think I needed to wake up a bit more lol.

I think I might go get shit done today. Update my pdoc via email (usually I do that before this point in the week lol), talk about the bleh feelings and all that. I guess not updating has been related to just feeling very uhh.. status quo comapred to last week.

I guess status quo is better than getting worse haha.

I'm gonna take care of some car stuff. Play some music. Maybe go outside if the weather isn't too bad. Also - get winter gear like I have been planning for a while now. That would enable me to tell the weather to go f*ck itself and just head out whenever I like. Hahaha.

edit: also, I just download a mood tracker app on my phone and I'm gonna start using it. Tracks sleep and a bunch of different moods, shows trends, lets you email it all to your doc. Definitely gonna be using it.

Good news is, BP is one of the best mental illnesses to have if you really must have one and could choose :p

What's funny about that is my pdoc said the same thing. Same exact thing basically. Haha.

And in regards to me starting PTSD treatment first - for some odd reason it was easier for me to accept, than the bipolar diagnosis. I guess I had a harder time being in denial of it - and also the PTSD was discovered first. When I began treatment for it I didnt know what I had going on, just that I needed help pretty badly. I was relieved it wasnt something like schizophrenia. I was relieved to have the whole "sleep deprivation torture leads to psychosis" thing - though the torture and forced sleep deprivation almost certainly triggered a manic episode - and the resulting psychotic episode from both the sleep deprivation and it not being treated at all. Mania being part of it explains why I got even worse after the torture ended and I was free.

 

[blackemerald1]

Someone can be sad, mad, angry, happy, joyful, energetic, etc. without it necessarily being mania or depression related to bipolar. It can just be standard human emotions, or related to other mental illnesses.

^^I think this is so important to remember.
It sounds like you are fearful of intense emotion because you fear mania or depression. (Understandably btw)
I wonder if there is anything your psydoc can help you with so you can allow yourself to feel all of those emotions without the additional worry that you are progressing to mania or depression?

There must be some sign posts or that can help you gauge where 'normal' is. Or must you rely on someone IRL to see you? Or is this what the apps do?

Outside factors are going to complicate a lot of things because you really are in a difficult situation with your living arrangements so that has got to be a big factor in any emotion you have. And all of your other situational stress too.... all playing out with ptsd in the mix. You would be abnormal to not feel those intense emotions.

 

[Sweetleaf]

You would be abnormal to not feel those intense emotions.

That is very helpful to read - you're right, I would be an oddball if I didn't feel intense emotions from my present situation.

I still need to figure out where normal is - and lessen my fear of feeling feelings.

It's kinda funny - I had just gotten over my "not sleeping = psychosis!" fears, related to the sleep deprivation torture and the psychosis that spawned from it. I was able to not worry if I wasn't able to sleep, or sleep enough, on a given night - that was a hard thing to gain... the ability to have PTSD or whatever else keep me awake all night.... and not worry about it, even though it sucks.

Now when it happens, I'm like "oh f*ck!!!! is this mania coming in ?!?!" though so far, that's definitely not the case. I'm sure y'all would be pointing it out to me lmao.

There must be some sign posts or that can help you gauge where 'normal' is. Or must you rely on someone IRL to see you? Or is this what the apps do?

From looking through the app, it seems to just track general trends. So if one is upcycling or downcycling, it can show in the trends.

I do have IRL people I can rely on - my bandmates and my pdoc. I see both every week. My bandmates noticed last time I was manic, and it was before it had even kicked into the hardcore mania. So I'm pretty sure they'd say something again. They don't know I'm bipolar but they were like "wow holy shit you have a loooootttt of energy today"

My pdoc would just give it to me straight - and now I would just accept it, if she told me that I'm manic. I'd hopefully notice myself before seeing her lol, and start taking zyprexa to stifle it. Same for bandmates. But, they're there. As are all of you on the forum.

Also I chat in an IRC channel daily - they know I have bipolar 1, and have seen me manic, so there are many people there who would tell me I'm going manic (which is my main concern - don't get me wrong, I definitely don't want depression, but... for me depression carries no fear at all of psychosis.)

I think all the safety nets I can get is a good idea.

Looking back - even though it was very embarrassing to me... I did do a good job while -really f*cking manic-. I didn't do anything particularly stupid. Didn't get myself into any trouble, just rambled on and on and on and acted like a coked up squirrel - but I was smart enough while manic to still bounce my ideas off of other people, no matter how absolutely f*cking awesome those ideas seemed at the time (that shit makes me feel like an idiot after the mania passes lmao, but, really... at least manic me knows to listen to other people)

I wonder if there is anything your psydoc can help you with so you can allow yourself to feel all of those emotions without the additional worry that you are progressing to mania or depression?

That would be a great question to ask her when I see her tomorrow, actually. Thanks for pointing that out.

I also need to re-address the issue of my fear of psychosis, now that I know that I am totally capable of having it -without- motherf*cking torture.

The one and only thing I clung to, to make me fear psychosis less, was the fact that it took extreme circumstances for it to happen to me, and that I was free of the situation and not going to get tortured, or at least statistically having a very low chance of being tortured again.

Now, that's been taken away - not entirely (I noticed the psychosis during the torture, wanted help, and couldn't get any because of the horrifying situation I was in) - but still. I know I am capable of entering psychosis without torture - it just takes strong enough mania, and me doing nothing about it, or the things I do about it not working.

So. yeah. That would be good stuff to address.

 

[blackemerald1]

"wow holy shit you have a loooootttt of energy today

Lol I know! I wish I could have met you IRL because your mind was throwing words down on the page and they all made sense! There was a lot of energy pumping through your veins clearly but it wasn't stupid, guff - it was all intelligent

I did do a good job while -really f*cking manic-. I didn't do anything particularly stupid. Didn't get myself into any trouble, just rambled on and on and on and acted like a coked up squirrel -

^^Yes you kept yourself safe! Something to remember when you become anxious about this new diagnosis. Knowing that you are able to keep yourself safe should help you relax just a little as you ease into acceptance of this illness.

Clearly self-preservation is deeply embedded in your personality - you are intelligent, sensible and practical imho.

I don't know how you felt at the time but that is what came across in your words to me.

You were willing to listen and you were able to delay impulses and make plans that kept yourself safe. Like going to your psydoc and talking to your friends.

At the end of the day that is the most critical thing. :hug:

 

[ILoveLife]

Sweetleaf, not to give you any more fears than you already have. But I think it might be benefitial for you to know that in bipolar, psychosis can happen during depression too. If you're prone to having psychosis when deregulated, you can have it on all extremes of the disorder. You can ask your pdoc this, if you have doubts.
Psychosis in bipolar dx is Bipolar Disorder with Psychotic Features, that doesn't mean your psychosis "prefers" mania, rather it prefers dysregulation - the neurotransmitters are dopamine and seratonin on both, and with psychosis too, that's why it's common in bipolar.

Good news is, usually is psychosis in BP is transient and it's not so devastating like it is in schizophrenia, you still maintain a good level of awareness (which you did, when you went to see a doc when you were psychotic). It doesn't usually last, and it doesn't usually leave a big crater of issues.

I've read a good book for Bipolar, more geared towards family members, but it helped me a lot to understand it.
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