Should I ask my dad what he's doing for Thanksgiving or just spend it alone?

[scout86]

Parenting is basiclly loving your child, right?

This is just "me". I like using the L word about as much as I like the whole inner child thing. But, yes, "love" is part of it I suppose. (One of the reasons I don't have kids is that I've always known I'd be a horrible parent, so I'm not the best person to venture into this topic.)

What else do you get from a good parent? Stability? Consistency? Life skills? Needs met? A lot of things. It's not all about ice cream and Disneyland. Some of it is eating your vegetables because they're good for you.

What makes a kid scream non-stop for an absent parent? If you were confronted with such a kid, in real life, what would you do? (I'm thinking that "drown it" is probably not an acceptable answer....) Seriously. You listen, you ask questions, you convince the kid that you're a safe, responsible adult, etc., right? Distraction is part of it, sure. But, it seems to me, the message is "Kid, I don't know where your mom and dad went off to, but you're going to be ok, we've got this handled." (Take that with a grain of salt. My version of "attachment issues" is that I wasn't, so some of this I honestly can't perceive as a problem, even if I try.)

Maybe it would work better to deal with an inner puppy.....

Anyway, I don't, personally, think you have to be able to define love to demonstrate it. What would you do if Chopper was scared, upset, and freaking out? For that matter, what do you think your T would do with that child? The problem with requiring a definition first is that you're creating an artificial roadblock. And the thing about parenting is, everyone makes mistakes. Parents come into the situation with what ever it is they've got. Some of it's good, some not so good. Some try really hard, some not so much. But parenting is an experiment, for everyone. At least it seems that way to me. So, if you WERE parenting an upset child, in real life, you'd be forced to flounder around and do the best you could, like everyone else, with what ever skills and compassion you can find. You'd have both successes and failures too. But, if your intent was to take the very best care of that kid that you possibly could, I think the intent is going to come through in the end. The idea is that the kid MATTERS. What she feels MATTERS.

You aren't going to find that with your biological family. You might find some sort of distraction. Maybe that's ok, but I think you'd be better off doing something else.

Have you ever checked out any parenting web sites?

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Have you ever checked out any parenting web sites?

No but that's a very good idea!

One of the reasons I don't have kids is that I've always known I'd be a horrible paren

Me too! Well, I cant have kids but I have never even ventured into adoption for that reason and now, with my physical disabilites, I feel its too late anyway. I cant even take care of myself let alone another tiny human!

Anyway, I don't, personally, think you have to be able to define love to demonstrate it.

But wouldnt i need to know what love is to know how to demostrate it? Love Ive been kicking around for a while and what i cannot grasp is that love is a basic human need. Wrong thread, I know, related, I think, since its this child (6 yr old) part thats is in the forground and crowding everything else out. Wouldnt i need to know what love is first? Even to just demostrate it. How would I know what Im demostrating is love if I dont know what it is?

Serious questions.

I think I may demostrate it without knowing its love though. But, talking about this child part, if I am needing to purposely demostrate love to said part, I think I need to know what it is to purposepy demostrate it dont I?

What makes a kid scream non-stop for an absent parent?

Lost in a store maybe?

If you were confronted with such a kid, in real life, what would you do?

Certianly wouldn't drown said kid lol!

Maybe get on their level and tell them I'm safe and will help them find their parents. Though, I'm not sure how to show or prove to, say, a 6 yr old that I'm safe and I'm not sure it's safe for a 6 yr old to go with anyone that just simply tells them that they're a safe person. If I had a kid I'd likely be a helicoper parent but I'd make damn sure they knew not to go with just any stranger that says "I'm safe" or "you"re safe with me". Or even "I'm going to help you find your mommy". I'd probably teach them to find a worker to ask for help from.

My "inner child" is that way meaning I tell "her" I'm safe and that makes "her" scream louder. "She's" very much my traumatized 6 yr old self back then. I'm not sure how you'd prove to, say, a lost child in a store if they were screaming for their absent parents, that you are a safe person or how I'd calm them down. I would try to help find their parents or at least find a worker or security guard to pass the child to. If I found said child on the street or something, I'd call 911 and would make sure I was there with the child until the cops came.

But how do you prove to said child that you are safe and are going to help them?

I thought about like having a foster kid as well. One of which you have to love and their parents are gone and possibly abusive and/or neglectful. I still don't know how to show said kid love. I mean, I'd talk to them as if they were an adult (not about adult stuff but, you know, I'd talk straight and clear), calmly, leaving room for their emotions and their own thoughts. And I'd listen to them (though this 6 yr old part isn't saying a lot right now other then "I want my daddy"). I think about this moreso then you'd think. I still don't know how you'd prove to them that you're safe and how to show said child love. But, I am probably over thinking it too.

What else do you get from a good parent? Stability? Consistency? Life skills? Needs met?

This I shoved into love because I think that if you love your child, these things come with that. I am not sure you can provide these things without loving said child first. And usually an absencr of love is also an absent of these things too.

But, just how I am understanding things. I could be totally wrong. But, that's why I'm asking for thoughts and input cause Im honestly lost on this.

I know this thread took a turn but I think this is the core issue of why I wanted to contact my dad and see him on Thanksgiving to begin with. That child part really screaming for "daddy" and Im having a hard tine calming that part and thats starting to lead to some self distructive stuff.

 

[scout86]

but I think this is the core issue of why I wanted to contact my dad and see him on Thanksgiving to begin with.

I think you're right. And, I think this is important and worth spending some time on. I also think that contacting your biological dad is just kicking the can down the road. (Are you familiar with Arlo Guthrie's great song, "Alice's Restaurant Massacree"? It's a Thanksgiving classic.

There's a place in the song when Arlo says he's going to just "wait for it to come around again on the guitar". A lot of this mental health stuff is like that. You can deal with it now, or not. If you don't, it's going to come around again. It will probably keep coming around again, until you get it totally sorted, because usually that doesn't happen all at once.)

Anyway, I don't think you can go off topic in your own thread.

When I asked what makes the kid scream, what I was getting at is what's the FEELING the kid is experiencing to create that action? Could be lots of things. This is your inner child, so you get to sort out what the feeling is. Once you do, what would you do with a child who's overwrought because of that feeling?

I said I'm not fond of this inner child stuff. My T IS kind of fond of it. (Every time he starts in on it, I roll my eyes & he laughs & says he was waiting for that.) One of the homework assignments he gave me you might find useful. He said to create an imaginary family. Lots of them, in fact. He decided I'd have been better off if I had sisters so he decided I needed two older sisters (one is a marine biologist & the other is an astronaut, which sort of leaves the the underachiever in the family LOL). Anyway, his point (he may have had more than one point) was that that we can create, for ourselves, some of the things we would have liked to experience in our families of origin. I'm not saying this is perfect, but it can produce some interesting insights.

So, what he'd probably suggest is that you take that child by the hand and go looking for her father. Show her lots of possible fathers and ask what she thinks of them.

Where I'm about to go is just me, I'm not an expert at this stuff. I think, in your case, you need to go into this realizing that that inner child of yours isn't the typical kid because her experiences haven't been typical. Don't expect her to act like she's part of the cast of Leave it to Beaver. But, act like the adult you and be honest. You can TELL a kid "I think you may have been robbed in the dad department, but maybe we can find you a better one." You can say anything you want. My suggestion is to take it seriously enough that you don't let the kid go down any rabbit holes. What ever that takes.

How do you convince a child you're "safe"? By being safe. Consistently. With the average kid, they're easy to convince. With a kid who's been hurt, who's been lied to, etc, it's harder. It's like your T working to get you to trust him in the first place? He;s probably a good example.

 

[Justmehere]

Even to just demostrate it. How would I know what Im demostrating is love if I dont know what it is?

I’d suggest switching out the term “love” for “kindness.” If that’s still too hard, then switch it out for not-mean.

Or to dive deeper, what did you need as a child but didn’t get? Try to start doing that for your inner child/yourself. Grief will show up too, for what can’t be done - but it’s there anyhow.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

When I asked what makes the kid scream, what I was getting at is what's the FEELING the kid is experiencing to create that action?

Lots of things but what seems to really get "her" screaming is anything to do with "mommy" or "daddy". Like when my youtube MOD suggested I block my dad's phone number. That really got "her" going. The thought of doing that. Same with the thought of asking for my house key back. Anything that has to do with him not in my life anymore or even in my life less. It is like a child that is reaching for something that they REALLY WANT! Kicking and screaming and the whole nine! The worst young child tantraun you can imagine. In my head. Which also, to a point, effects the way I act and think and most especially feel. Anytime I even try to approach that subject, "she" makes her appreance and has a tantraum about it. It's really hard. Can you imagine the worst child tantraum going on in your own head?

I guess him not being there for Thanksgiving is another one that gets "her" going. Work is a distraction that really helps because I have to force her back some and numb her away at least enough to be able to do my job. I can't fully numb "her" away but I can enough to do my job. I can't seem to do that any other time though. My therapist has made the comment many times, before he knew about my parts, that he it seemed like to him that he was talking to two people. An adult and a child. So "she" does influence me enough that "she" makes it visuable to others that don't know about my parts. And I have not yet figured out how to control these parts and when they make an apperence. I have also not been able to find anything that distracts me as much as work does. Which is the only place I have been able to push my parts back a bit and numb them a bit. Though, I don't doubt they influence my calls with customers.

You can TELL a kid "I think you may have been robbed in the dad department, but maybe we can find you a better one."

I've gone searching for a better dad. Hense the over 100 men online that have all abandoned me that I talk about. That was my search of a better dad.

Currently, my therapist serves as that a little bit. He knows about it as well as, at least for now, is ok with it. I often think of how it would be if he was my dad. It's a common maladative daydream. Most especially to help me go to sleep.

My therapist really wants to do some dad work. We just haven't gotten there yet.

I’d suggest switching out the term “love” for “kindness.” If that’s still too hard, then switch it out for not-mean

Hmmm! I can try. I believe it was @Friday that suggested to change the word love to a new term or new word in my "what is love" thread and the try to write a new definition. I haven't been able to do that yet as i haven't been able to find a term. I can try "kindness" or "not mean". I don't know. Struggling hard with that one. Not sure why it's so hard to figure out how to put a new word to it and redefine it. There seems to be some sort of block or wall or something that I am hitting. My brain is just struggling hard with it. But will try.

what did you need as a child but didn’t get? Try to start doing that for your inner child/yourself. Grief will show up too, for what can’t be done - but it’s there anyhow.

That one is hard too because I am hitting against "deserving" and "worthy of" and then that just takes me down "I am a monter" road. We are working on this in therapy now though. But, we are still working on it and will need to wait a week to see my therapist again.

Maybe it would be helpful to link this thread:

How do you define "love"?

It seems to be related.

 

[LuckiLee]

Volunteer your time to your favorite charity, soup kitchen, homeless shelter or VA hospital.... Spend your time with people who will appreciate you and your efforts. HAPPY THANKSGIVING!

 

[Justmehere]

Anything that has to do with him not in my life anymore or even in my life less. It is like a child that is reaching for something that they REALLY WANT! Kicking and screaming and the whole nine!

It’s hard to accept that one lost out in the parent lottery. It’s especially hard for kids who need safe moms and dads. Many adults spend their whole lives trying to solve broken child-parent relationships.

Traumatized kids/adults sometimes throw temper tantrums, even severe ones, because it damn hurts.

But that doesn’t mean things can’t shift. That doesn’t mean you are helpless to help her. This inner child is you, and you also have an adult self too. Don’t lose sight of that. It is you, a part of you, that doesn’t want to accept that your father can’t be there for you. Even this thread shows resistance to accepting that reality - and that’s very understandable and common. I want a healthy version of my mother and father to show up too. I’ve resisted for a long time too.

Beginning to accept that those healthy mothers and fathers are not going to be there for us - means beginning to grieve the loss. That loss is big. Anger is pet of grief. That will be hard to step into, but it is doable. Facing that grief will also make it easier to know if you should spend the holidays with your father and expose the vulnerable inner child to someone that is abusive, triggering, and hurtful. It does take that crucial step of acceptance. Acceptance isn’t condoning your father’s behavior, but quite the opposite - it’s accepting that he is abusive. He won’t be what you (your inner child) reasonably want him to be: a good dad. Denial and resistance and yes, even temper tantrums to resist this fact - pretty common.

When a child has this kind of temper tantrum, just getting out coloring books and engaging child-like play isn’t going to be enough sometimes. They need an adult to show up. It doesn’t need to be a perfect have-all-the-answers adult. It needs to be a reasonably-safe and listening adult. You got that in you.

What you can do is listen, provide safety, and reassure yourself that while facing this loss and pain, you will be there for her/you now. Because you can be. You can reassure that little girl you are not going to leave her.

If all you focus on is that the good dad your inner child/you wants isn’t there for you now, that child in you will keep raging out. They will feel abandoned. But if you instead bring the adult you alongside to reassure the child that while the mom or dad they want to have can’t be there, you can be there, and it will be ok... that can go a long ways to beginning to shift this inner pain.

Maybe your inner child needs space to not color or distract, but express anger and pain. In SAFE ways. Not coloring happy pictures but go throw some rocks, scream in a pillow, draw or color dark pictures. Then bring it Anger is part of grief. It’s ok to be damn paused your father wasn’t there for you in the past and isn’t there for you now. Just don’t use the holidays to go chasing him to try and see if maybe this time he will be - I speak from personal experience as someone who kept trying to make it work with my family because I didn’t want to feel the anger and pain of acceptance they are screwed up and will not be there for me.

The one thing that made it easier: reminding myself that I can be there for myself now. I will screw up. But that’s ok. I can forgive myself and keep trying to show up in kinder ways for myself. I don’t have to have parenting or love all figured out to know, what’s the kind thing to do for myself today? And to know that if I screw up with myself, it’s a little different than failing at parenting for a kid. I’ve got more room to try and keep trying and do better and better.

The important existential questions about “what is love?” does not actually have to be fully answered in order to not engage abusers around the holidays. One “just” has to be committed to self compassion and kindness. This is of course easy to say, and yet hard to do - like many aspects of recovery. It is also worth it.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Maybe your inner child needs space to not color or distract, but express anger and pain. In SAFE ways

Yes, this. I have 4 parts and there is one much more angry. The child part is more...devistated would be the only word to describe it. And scared. But, this young part is the one that desperately reaches out for a mommy & daddy and then freaks out wont "she" cant get it.

Though, I have failed in letting any part express anger safely. I have tried. Art is actually a big topic of discussion in therapy. Because I'm an artist that's lost my ability to draw and paint. Today, its all just scribbles and frustration. I have tried to just sit and put a pencil and a paint brush to paper and see what happens (as my therapist keeps suggesting I do). A black canvas is what I get. Or torn up paper.

Throwing rocks & hitting a pillow does nothing. No screams come out when i try to scream. I try to get out of the way but something is blocking it but i have no idea what that something is.

It maybe acceptance. Im honestly not really sure. Logically, I know my dad will never change. I know he was and still is abusive. I know my mother is dead. I mean, i know these things. So why cant i block my da's number and take his house key?

I mean, i dont know. Im coming up empty on what is blocking this. Or how to move or get around whatever it is.

Today im trying to distract. Its not really working but at least hours go by of not cutting and being self destructive. Tomorrow, who knows. I wont be calling or texting my dad. Christmas, hopefully I stay on the schedule to work. The time around Christmas will be hard. It is also a trauma-versey so likely extra hard. I started my own tradition years ago that last year and this year i won't be able to continue. It helped but i just cant unfortantly.

What I did was pick something i cant afford but really want. Then save all year long and then get it for myself as a christmas present to myself. Its how i got my livingroom 50 inch flat screen and stand. The year before it was my blueray player (which had to stay in the box for a year because i thought it would connect to my older tv but wouldnt. So, it was like i got two presents that year).

Anyway, money is tight so sadly i couldnt do it last year and likely wont be able to this year. It was cool though as it shifted my focus and made me happy for quite a while.

Anyway, point is, holidays are hard for me and now this year, being 100% alone I have found is much harder then I ever thought it would be.

I would volunteer if I could but physically I cant. So, here I sit, shut up in a pitch black house with my service dog because even going outside in the daylight around people, with Chopper, is too much.

I got paid today and so im trying to budget in some pizza. Pizza would be nice.

Either way, there is some sort of unknown concrete wall blocking my way to expressing anger in any safe means known to man. What do I do with that? I don't even know what it is. How do I bring down a mental wall when I don't even know what the wall is?

 

[Tinyflame]

Dear @lostforgottensoul , I hesitated to post on here, and went to quote others' great observations, but it would have been 1/4 mile long. I, too, like @scout86 am not for the conventional explanation of an inner child, so I don't want to deter you. But I know you can ignore this if not helpful.

I am thinking only this, as your Thanksgiving is tomorrow: as to your question, should you? Now- you can choose. I agree with others 'pressure' is the worst. And Halmark-card-expectations are to holidays what Stepford Wives are to marriage. ?

The best holidays have the least stress. What is the best for YOU?

I see the inner child concept this way: with every child we (I) can envision their ultimate adult self, in my mind: their personality, likes, tendencies, even dreams based on those and what they communicate. They will relate as a child.

With every adult, I can see their 'small' self with my heart; their wounds, needs, sometimes longings. But they are part of the adult. As seamless as water mixed in milk. Their dreams are adult dreams. And very consistent with who they are/ were as children.

They say all of our wounds come from age 7 down. Every bad (hetero, but there is no difference) relationship is waiting for your dad to get home on the front porch, really; to 'be' loving; present; attentive. To love you (as you always should have been in no doubt of, through words and most actions, and without abuse or distortion).

For people to have loving relationships- no matter how love is defined it's not defined as hurtful or abusive or distorted as loving but causing harm or taking away the right to be 'you'- individuals have to be healthy enough and selflessly directed enough to value the other person- to understand that child crying out in need of a father will forever more have that need. And yes, painful to accept, but necessary. Perhaps if the dad ever could have provided that- he would have. But maybe the case is, he could not and can not. We can't take away wounds, just heal them.

You have pain (physical) and stress to deal with. The name you chose here was 'lostforgottensoul'. You are not. You are loved here, and by Chopper, and I believe others likely too, for example. But for those of us (me too) who have to learn self-compassion, until we do we will never be able to feel the same joy, or choose in ways that aren't emotionally harmful for ourselves. Relationships don't have to hurt. People can be around you and not cause you hurt, or expect you to be someone else.

No matter what, have a happy Thanksgiving. Realize you are wayyyyy ahead of many of your family in understanding what mental healthiness is. Even if maybe you don't think so.

I was given wise words- protect your heart. :hug:

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Relationships don't have to hurt. People can be around you and not cause you hurt, or expect you to be someone else

If only I could believe that!

 

[lynn T.]

So, my relationship is very strained with my dad to say the least.

I'm off on Thurdays and he knows this so he has to know I am off for Thanksgiving but it's the first time he hasn't asked if I was working on not.

There are positives and negitives for both options. He denies my trauma and that I even have PTSD. He triggers me and the last time he saw me he triggered me big time and I said straight to him that I didn't put him back on my lease (long story) because I no longer trust him. Since then he hasn't really spoken to me. Our relationship is broken for sure. He was also part of my trauma.

I have a feeling that he and my step mom are getting together with my sisters (one of which is local and the rest a few hours away). If so, I would not be invited anyway.

But reserving to spend it alone when I honestly don't know what he is doing is...well, super depressing.

Thoughts?

Sadly, reminds me of my sister. You speak of his being a trigger, then you mention the trust is not there. I do sympathize with you. I stopped communication with my sister because of the triggers of criticisms, snide remarks made at family dinners to whomever she felt like targeting, but much of her issue was due to alcoholism. I don't think it matters so much the uncovering of what all causes one to feel the anxiety or panic but more our realization that the time spent with certain people is not healthy nor productive for us. To me, this realization is an accomplishment in setting boundaries and results in much less trauma than we would have experienced had we been around them. I hope you won't feel excluded but rather freed from the probability based on your history with him that you made the right decision for yourself. That's a tough thing to do but actually courageous, I think.

 

[Tinyflame]

I agree @lostforgottensoul , and thank you for what you said @lynn T. Somehow, our own protection/ thoughts/ feelings, is the last thing to (we) really address or consider, if at all.

:hug: