Low immunity after periods of high stress and hypervigilance

[Digz]

After I've been through a period of being triggered significantly and having been what I call 'up' for a number of weeks, when the stress finally recedes my body and immunity is left depleted. I catch bugs and viruses. These illnesses are usually one of two things. 1, a virus that is presenting significantly worse than doctors would expect with more severe symptoms. 2, an odd illness that's not usual for someone of my age to catch, e.g. shingles or hand, foot and mouth. Every time I go to the GP it's the same. It often confuses the GP and once they finally work out the actual illness I have, they never acknowledge there's a link to my PTSD.

Does anybody else have this pattern of high stress, stress recedes, body collapses?

 

[Friday]

Does anybody else have this pattern of high stress, stress recedes, body collapses?

Pretty much everyone. Because that’s how the immune system functions.

It’s not quite a binary system, the sympathetic & parasympathetic nervous systems... as there is some gradient to some extent... Because they can’t both be on at the same time / switch from one system to the next; the gradient only happens AS they’re switching....but it’s easier to think of as binary. So for right now we’re just goin to oversimplify a smidge.

Sympathetic Nervous System - Fight Or Flight
Parasympathetic Nervous System - Rest & Digest

The SNS is only ever meant to kick on for relatively short periods of time, whilst the parasympathetic runs the rest of the time, taking care of daily living... digesting food/converting it to energy, immune system fighting off infection, etc. The parasympathetic system uses a TON of energy. Just the act of sitting rather than laying -much less standing or walking around- uses the absolute most energy. Digestion uses up 80% of the rest <<< Which is why when you’re sick? Those are the first 2 things to go, as the body shuts those individual systems off and sends all of the energy to the immune system itself. Feeling slow/lethargic? Not being hungry? Aren’t actually symptoms of the infection, they’re symptoms of your body fighting the infection. As are your bones aching, as that’s where we manufacture b-cell antibodies :wtf: and a whole bunch of other fun things>>> But the immune system is still part of the parasympathetic Nervous System. Shutting off digestion and ratiocination are in its purview.

What happens when the sympathetic nervous system kicks on?

The immune system shuts OFF.

Because the Parasympathetic Nervous System shuts off when the Sympathetic turns on.

Which is a damn good thing. It doesn’t matter if you’d recover from pneumonia a week after the bear ate you, or if your cut heals a day faster when you’ve drowned in a flood.

The sympathetic is KING. When it says jump, everything else is already up in the air shouting “How high?”

99:100? A person can be on their deathbed, but leap out like a kid on Christmas morning, if the room catches on fire or soldiers rush in or the river breaks its banks. Energy RUSHES through them, their minds sharpen, and for a very very brief period of time... they’ll feel completely healthy. Better than completely healthy. Because the fight/flight response comes loaded with not just adrenaline, but endorphins/pain killers, a massive blood/oxygen dump.... all systems flooded with NOW!!! Shaaaazam.

It’s meant to turn on several times a day, no worries. Going for a run? To the gym? Playing sports? (Hunting?) Your sympathetic nervous system is what’s in control. That’s why if you’re starting to get sick, you’ll get sick faster... or starting to get better you’ll relapse if you do too much too soon. (Immune System shutting off for even short periods of time gives invaders the edge). But most of the time we aren’t sick. It doesn’t matter if the immune system shuts off for an hour or six. It turns right back on and catches back up killing things once we quit exercising.

You can see where stress creates a problem with this (mostly) binary-system, right?

1. Sympathetic Nervous System on for too long, means the immune system is OFF for too long. Trifling colds blow up into much bigger threats.
2. We don’t FEEL sick, even when we are, because most of “feeling” sick is the immune system itself working hard. Slowing us down, cranking out antibodies, doing it’s job.

So the end result is that we’re a lot sicker than we feel, for a lot longer, and the infection is a much bigger threat... when it’s blown in during times of high stress. Then we either relax (OR the infection has become life threatening to the point the sympathetic acquiesces) and BOOM. The immune system turns on and kicks us on our ass. Because it’s got a shit ton of work to do, that it’s massively behind on.

 

[Deanna]

I take vitamon C everyday, it doesn't matter. It's been 92-95 degrees outside for a week.. I am wiped out. I work, and come home real tired, lately. It is my immune system. My nose just runs.

But, as Friday said, the immune systen will turn on again.

 

[Digz]

Thanks @Friday , that totally explains everything! I can't believe a doctor has never explained that before! Now all I have to try to do is not get triggered and totally stressed out! lol :P

 

[Friday]

Thanks @Friday , that totally explains everything! I can't believe a doctor has never explained that before! Now all I have to try to do is not get triggered and totally stressed out! lol :p

LMFAO... no lie, right???

There are some things you can do to help circumvent this (whilst working on stress management/ as a part of stress management ).

1. nudge the parasympathetic back “on”. There are a few different ways to do this chemically, most veeeeeeery addictive, but you can also take advantage of the fact that it’s a “dumb” system. It turns on in response to a perceived threat (flight) OR sudden demand of resources (fight). By USING all the chemicals it’s sent swirling through your bloodstream? Especially in an explosive burst? (Read = Exercise) you can trick both your nervous systems into thinking that’s why the sympathetic turned on. And you’re done now. So “clearly” it’s time for the parasympathetic to come back online. Even if you’re only able to trick the system for an hour or two a day? That’s a couple hours that your immune system is taking care of business and your body is resting/repairing itself.

2. Eat sick-people food. Because digestion uses so much energy it both shuts off when you’re sick AND when you’re stressed. But easy to digest super broken down foods? Can still absorb through the lining of your mouth (simple sugars) and through your intestines (fats, amino acids, vitamins, minerals, etc.) all without the massive muscle action and huge chemical dump that breaks things down into their component parts to be absorbed. Because they’re already broken down ;) But the complex fiber rich “healthy” foods for healthy people? Aren’t going to get broken down, and can’t be used. Which means on top of everything else your immune system won’t have the nutrients it needs to fight off infection, nor will your body have the nutrients it needs to repair itself. So avoid “healthy” food under high stress, and go for the simple sugars, over cooked mushy awfulness (there’s a reason hospital food sucks, it can be digested by sick people), mcDonalds, nutrition shakes, SOUP... anything that requires virtually no chewing & is as pre-digested as super processed as possible. Sure...That will make you super fat if you ate it all the time... Don’t eat sick people food all the time. Eat sick people food when you’re stressed. That a baby or someone under a blanket coughing and biserable can eat. Just to give your body the building blocks it needs when it only has short periods of time to “reach” for those building blocks to repair itself. (Aieeeee! How can I be out of protein??? Again?!? Dammit. Okay what else have we... oh. Damn. Sigh. Fine Sympathetic, take over, I’ll fix this muscle next time you decide to chill. :shifty: )

1+2= Drinking a meal replacement shake, or V8, or cup of soup right after exercising? Can make a HUGE difference in your overall health.

A slightly less effective method is to eat right before bed. (Bad advice for healthy people, but high stress isn’t healthy) Sleeping means most things are converted to long term storage (fat deposits), rather than put into immediate use, but there’s a fairly brief window before the sleep-System has its way with you. Ditto right when you wake up (as long as you’re not waking in a panic) before the levels of stress start bearing down. So, again, a V8 or similar that can be immediately absorbed? Sneaking those things in during rest/digest window can massively improve your overall physicality/immune response/general health.

 

[Gs172003]

LMFAO... no lie, right???

There are some things you can do to help circumvent this (whilst working on stress management/ as a part of stress management ).

1. nudge the parasympathetic back “on”. There are a few different ways to do this chemically, most veeeeeeery addictive, but you can also take advantage of the fact that it’s a “dumb” system. It turns on in response to a perceived threat (flight) OR sudden demand of resources (fight). By USING all the chemicals it’s sent swirling through your bloodstream? Especially in an explosive burst? (Read = Exercise) you can trick both your nervous systems into thinking that’s why the sympathetic turned on. And you’re done now. So “clearly” it’s time for the parasympathetic to come back online. Even if you’re only able to trick the system for an hour or two a day? That’s a couple hours that your immune system is taking care of business and your body is resting/repairing itself.

2. Eat sick-people food. Because digestion uses so much energy it both shuts off when you’re sick AND when you’re stressed. But easy to digest super broken down foods? Can still absorb through the lining of your mouth (simple sugars) and through your intestines (fats, amino acids, vitamins, minerals, etc.) all without the massive muscle action and huge chemical dump that breaks things down into their component parts to be absorbed. Because they’re already broken down ;) But the complex fiber rich “healthy” foods for healthy people? Aren’t going to get broken down, and can’t be used. Which means on top of everything else your immune system won’t have the nutrients it needs to fight off infection, nor will your body have the nutrients it needs to repair itself. So avoid “healthy” food under high stress, and go for the simple sugars, over cooked mushy awfulness (there’s a reason hospital food sucks, it can be digested by sick people), mcDonalds, nutrition shakes, SOUP... anything that requires virtually no chewing & is as pre-digested as super processed as possible. Sure...That will make you super fat if you ate it all the time... Don’t eat sick people food all the time. Eat sick people food when you’re stressed. That a baby or someone under a blanket coughing and biserable can eat. Just to give your body the building blocks it needs when it only has short periods of time to “reach” for those building blocks to repair itself. (Aieeeee! How can I be out of protein??? Again?!? Dammit. Okay what else have we... oh. Damn. Sigh. Fine Sympathetic, take over, I’ll fix this muscle next time you decide to chill. :shifty: )

1+2= Drinking a meal replacement shake, or V8, or cup of soup right after exercising? Can make a HUGE difference in your overall health.

A slightly less effective method is to eat right before bed. (Bad advice for healthy people, but high stress isn’t healthy) Sleeping means most things are converted to long term storage (fat deposits), rather than put into immediate use, but there’s a fairly brief window before the sleep-System has its way with you. Ditto right when you wake up (as long as you’re not waking in a panic) before the levels of stress start bearing down. So, again, a V8 or similar that can be immediately absorbed? Sneaking those things in during rest/digest window can massively improve your overall physicality/immune response/general health.

What about those of us that are exercising in one way or another all the time?
I walk all day at work. I do 7-8 miles there then go to the gym directly after. Until the past two weeks I would normally go for a walk with my husband after that but I haven't had the energy lately. I don't know why. I hike on the weekends. What do I do to keep things working right? It takes forever for me to heal. Even a danged scratch takes eternity.

 

[Deanna]

What about those of us that are exercising in one way or another all the time?
I walk all day at work. I do 7-8 miles there then go to the gym directly after. Until the past two weeks I would normally go for a walk with my husband after that but I haven't had the energy lately. I don't know why. I hike on the weekends. What do I do to keep things working right? It takes forever for me to heal. Even a danged scratch takes eternity.

I too walk all day at work then come home and walk on treadmill. Yesterday I had a meltdown with boyfriend...fell at work ( first). So l was coming around a corner and something else was put there! A big plastic wagon that you pull kids in, and *splat*. I fell on my knees then all my weight went on my finger. Then came home and told boyfriend he was on his way out of my life ( meltdown) Sun is blaring hot.. today I'm exhausted. Went to work and now eying treadmill. Boyfriend survived. My immune system is shot.

I'll eat some sick people food.. As Friday said.

 

[Gs172003]

I too walk all day at work then come home and walk on treadmill. Yesterday I had a meltdown with boyfriend...fell at work ( first). So l was coming around a corner and something else was put there! A big plastic wagon that you pull kids in, and *splat*. I fell on my knees then all my weight went on my finger. Then came home and told boyfriend he was on his way out of my life ( meltdown) Sun is blaring hot.. today I'm exhausted. Went to work and now eying treadmill. Boyfriend survived. My immune system is shot.

I'll eat some sick people food.. As Friday said.

Every other day I do weight training then an hour on an amt machine. I don't know how I keep functioning lol it was 99 degrees today at work lol

I just ate some cookies and we'll see how I feel after that. I have a danged headache.
Blah.

 

[Friday]

What about those of us that are exercising in one way or another all the time?

You’re not, though. You’re sleeping, going to the bathroom, probably driving places, etc. It doesn’t take long to switch from one system to the other. Seconds.

The sympathetic nervous system kicks on when you’re using it (like durin exercise) but also shuts off once you stop using it. Anxiety can kick it right back up, but you’d have to be going full bore with no sleep whatsoever to keep it turned on all the time. That’s got a cap at about 3 or 4 days for most people, without taking stimulants.

The problem (or one of them, to be more accurate) with stress-related-disease is the amount of time one is spent in sympathetic vs parasympathetic. A person can be extremely healthy exercising 10-15 hours a day. A very physical job + very physical play, or even the job alone. Because they’ve still got hours and hours left in the day. Both waking and sleeping. Meanwhile a no-exercise-holding the couch down person can be running their sympathetic nervous system 20+ hours a day, except sleep, just from stress... and be unhealthy as blazes.

Exercise isn’t a cure all... it’s “just” a tool in the tool box for managing stress, depression, etc., by changing the baseline physiology. If you’re already exercising 10+ hours a day and still symptomatic? That’s calling for other tools to be used, is all. But for those not burning off explosive stress, even a few minutes a day -much less 1-15 hours!- can create a massive difference.

 

[Gs172003]

You’re not, though. You’re sleeping, going to the bathroom, probably driving places, etc. It doesn’t take long to switch from one system to the other. Seconds.

The sympathetic nervous system kicks on when you’re using it (like durin exercise) but also shuts off once you stop using it. Anxiety can kick it right back up, but you’d have to be going full bore with no sleep whatsoever to keep it turned on all the time. That’s got a cap at about 3 or 4 days for most people, without taking stimulants.

The problem (or one of them, to be more accurate) with stress-related-disease is the amount of time one is spent in sympathetic vs parasympathetic. A person can be extremely healthy exercising 10-15 hours a day. A very physical job + very physical play, or even the job alone. Because they’ve still got hours and hours left in the day. Both waking and sleeping. Meanwhile a no-exercise-holding the couch down person can be running their sympathetic nervous system 20+ hours a day, except sleep, just from stress... and be unhealthy as blazes.

Exercise isn’t a cure all... it’s “just” a tool in the tool box for managing stress, depression, etc., by changing the baseline physiology. If you’re already exercising 10+ hours a day and still symptomatic? That’s calling for other tools to be used, is all. But for those not burning off explosive stress, even a few minutes a day -much less 1-15 hours!- can create a massive difference.

Gotcha, thank you

 

[Digz]

Great advice, thank you :)

 

[HealingMama]

Just an aside this all gets a little more interesting in the area of autoimmune conditions where the immune system actually attacks the person from the inside. Stress tends to trigger this so there is a double whammy of the stress using up resources for threat response, then the immune system coming online to repair things and to attack the invader which in this case is your own body.

Keeping stress levels down is even more important with autoimmunity, and there is a high incidence of people who have trauma history who also struggle with autoimmune conditions. The more you know...

Actually, stress related disorders also increase the risk for autoimmunity: Research