News Worldwide impact of the novel coronavirus (covid-19)

[Mee]

(Feeling grateful for the opportunity to tackle a trigger in all this. - I was accused of being a construction of social experiment for my personality - after the original breakdown this felt challenging and if I had been ‘false’. Now I feel more of myself resurfacing. It was never false - thanks for inadvertent help guys! ).

It doesn’t feel like a social experiment to me. It feels like a natural event under the circumstances in which it arose and interesting human and social responses that will make interesting review. It strikes me how it impacts so many different areas of ethics and yet how we still fail to have a holistic approach- and how we have the worst of globalisation. In this case the lack of coherence and the not having the best of globalisation will be ‘useful’ in that one two years, five years- we will have clearer answers. it also shows how simplistic to the point of idiocy it is to divide approaches in to political left and right.

 

[SeekingAfrica]

Is that more humane than letting it be a random cross section of society?

The whole balance between health crash and economy crashing right now is quickly becoming like the Trolley Problem/Paradox (if you watched the Good place of like ethics and psychology, you know that one- you're heading with broken railway trolley towards a crossection. If you choose to go to one side, you would kill 1 person, but it's someone you care about. if you go to the other side, you will kill 5 strangers. what do you do? which life if more valuable?)

I honestly don't know what is worse, the virus or what is happening to the economy-economies, actually- the longer this happens. Sure, economy in itself will adapt in a while, new things will pop and so on. But what about all the people that were getting buy on day to day paychecks, or those who will lose their business and livelihood and won't have enough money to get by? There is financial help from the government but that is slow and sparse and there are still way too many people for whom few weeks or even one week without income is too long. There will always be more people to start new businesses, but what about the people that will lose their livelihoods over this? Whichever way we are headed, I feel like the whole world will be significantly changed after this.

On the personal front, after this happening few times I am starting to grasp that me wearing a mask is setting off a trigger in me. Never had to before, never wear scarfs like this or anything.... And now everytime I have to go out if I put a mask on I inevitably spiral into an overwhelming panic attack. It's making things very difficult.

 

[blackemerald1]

I really do feel like I'm in a gigantic episode of Black Mirror. Just feels like that each day.

 

[Justmehere]

I am speechless.
Coronavirus germs can travel up to 27 feet, MIT researcher says

 

[The Albatross]

Is it all really worth it?

I actually had this conversation about myself with a friend. Personally for me (high risk) - do my own personal needs and/or my life outweigh what the needs are of a ratio of 1 to 900, or 1 to 1000 or so? Personally no. But that is my own personal choice. It is not necessary the choice of others (like my 79 year old mother who is also high risk and pretty freaked out by this whole thing) and mom was upset when she heard me say it but she's rather fear based anyways).

The analogy I used was when I chose to decline two women who offered to be surrogates for my husband and I to have a child. We thought and prayed about it long and hard. Ultimately both my husband and I decided that our personal want/need to have a child did not outweigh the potential detriment to the surrogate. And the odds were much much smaller than Covid death/recovery ratio (one to one versus 1 to 900 or a thousand based at the time of the conversation which was last week).

I am far and away much more intimidated by unintended consequences and the effect economically and to families of others than how it's gonna or may personally affect me. I'm asking too... maybe not exactly is it all really worth it"... but how much is it worth? Currently the models are still changing all the time... but the effects of the response to the pandemic likely will be felt in more than average suicides, overdoses, domestic abuse, as the economic repercussions are felt. I wasn't gonna say it though cuz I expected to be blasted.

My personal choice though does not necessarily reflect the choices that would be made by others.

 

[The Albatross]

Where I land:
The virus is dangerous
Authoritarian rule is dangerous
Loss of liberty is dangerous

I think the economy is screwed any way we go at this point.

Largely agree... but I do not agree/think the economy is screwed any way we go at this point.

 

[The Albatross]

RE: Try to help someone if you can.

For those not inclined or able to donate blood, make masks or donate supplies... many animal shelters are in dire need of pet foods. Our church has initiated their own member "welfare checks" for solitary or elder attendees to insure needs are met in lieu of group services.

 

[whiteraven]

Easy. Turn of the news and just read it online when you choose. Limited information in point form once or twice a day is usually enough to keep up with this.

Thanks. I didn't watch the news at all yesterday. And have severely limited watching for the last week.

It's more than just hearing what is happening now and what may happen in the future. It's about not having a job because I quit just before all this and the job I had lined up is not delayed (and likely won't pan out at all, given the nature of it); it's about having only my mom to actually talk to by phone; it's about just being very depressed and having trouble getting started and *doing* anything; it's about not being able to go to therapy, to be in the room with someone who can offer support.

Several things hit all at the same time and I'm just wishing I could manage better.

People are now killing themselves because their livelihoods have disappeared overnight.

I'm wishing there were more in the media on this. There are experts talking about how to manage the isolation, but they are mostly (here, anyway) talking about it in terms of healthy folks. There is very little (actually, none I've read/seen) conversation about people who are already emotionally/mentally "compromised." I just got through a very difficult couple of weeks during which I wanted to kill myself and now I'm trying to figure out how much more of this I can manage.

Is it all really worth it?

Yeah, that's the question, isn't it? Can we recover from the complete disruption of all services economically? And what about the general psychological health of the population?

I think there are positive things about this period in our lives. But I also think it will be very costly to many.

 

[Mee]

The is it worth it argument kind of has a parallel. I won’t labour it. But it’s somewhere many of us have been before - are we of value? Is the way in which social needs aren’t being met worth recognition and adjustment or is maintaining a status quo that doesn’t benefit all the priority?

I think neither clear cut answer on the table answers the questions I have nor sees us meeting our responsibilities. However- this has shown how poor many are at meeting responsibility and how much people evade spirit of guidelines made in haste to protect all. If this WERE a social experiment I were conducting as a potential emperor of the world - it would have had me make some changes to my plans ?

 

[Friday]

Do we let it run its course and stop all lockdowns, or is this really worth it?

Historically speaking... places that let plague run its course, are usually conquered by the countries that burned half of their own cities in order to stop the spread of the plague.

It’s a question of remain (mostly) prosperous for a few years, but become extremely weakened during that time, with no reserves and constant deficits, creating an extremely unstable and fragile economy & population base...or go broke for a few years, and emerge with a strong population base ready to rumble, and an explosive economy.

It was such a predictable outcome that by the 1700s no one in the west was letting plagues run their course.

Anywhere with plague was razed to the ground as a matter of course, and what was left was quarantined by force. Better to eat problems in the short term than to first be decimated by plague, and then annexed by your neighbors.

The only 2 quasi-exceptions to that rule, that I know of? The Spanish flu, & the US deliberately infecting Indians with smallpox blankets. (My “hasn't been done in the west” statement. Because the nations and tribes didn’t quarantine and raze? They died by the millions. And then the US just annexed their territory, as had been done in Europe for a thousand years.)

Plague following war is almost never contained... theories abound as to why, the most widely held is a resource issue. My personal suspicion is people are just too damn tired. Too tired of burning shit, and too inured to death to be afraid of it.

Because plague follows famine, as well as war, and yet resources are always creatively acquired during famine when resources are far scarcer... but people still have the energy, drive, and moxie to go after that shit.

So quasi-exceptions only. Because the Spanish flu was plague following war, and the native Americans didn’t have a millennium of plague management to steer their course, and shape their decisions.

So, from a historical perspective? If the west decides to just let the plague run it’s course, I suspect our grandkids will all be speaking Chinese, as they’re going to the effort to quarantine and raze. But I’m a little bluebird of happiness :cool: in that regard, going to the worst possible series of outcomes, first. I’m sure there are thousands and thousands of examples that never made the history books, because nothing really notable happened. Maybe this will be one of those times.

 

[Mee]

I noticed today ( and purposely not singling anyone out - we have seen how that goes ) that there is the cognitive disorder of mind reading going on in how we are viewing ( or reporting how we view) some actions of others sometimes. Take the masks . We don’t know what people taking a different view to ‘us’ is about mask wearing, what their knowledge base is, cultural background or whether they believe they are acting to protect themselves ( the often held western viewpoint for madk wearing) or others ( a priority for many eastern mask wearers outside this outbreak). respected scientists with different areas of study have different schools of thoughts on this too. For us to criticise people’s mind process from the basis of ‘mind reading’ might get us through the day - in which case keep at it. If it spreads dissent and creates anger towards people - much less cool imo.

 

[Chris-duck]

I don't understand your post @Mee I haven't seen mind reading here, so I can only assume you mean me, and I've also not been mind reading. I think theatre masks only being useful until they're wet from breath is actually useful info for people. I'm not judging or mind reading people's reasons for using them. I'm just pointing out it's inconsistent with advice. So people are unaware they're at risk when they wear one and still at risk of infecting others.

Not judgement. Just info. I'm way, way less subtle when I'm judging.