News Events around the George Floyd protests and riots, US and beyond

[siniang]

It's not wrong....it's a different, more inclusive way of thinking.......one that validates all humanity and not just a portion.

I did not say it's wrong. Please actually read the link.

I was thinking like you before, too. But it's actually really harmful. Even if unintended.

 

[joeylittle]

I’m not saying George Floyd doesn’t matter at all because of course he does. But the thing I’m struggling with I guess is this doesn’t feel like really for George Floyd, more that he’s being used as a reason to get going.

I think you're right - Floyd's murder has set off a problem that has been brewing, erupting, brewing, erupting...and I don't know that it would have gotten as big as it has, were it not also for the feelings running high anyway, due to the pandemic. A perfect storm, really.

But it feels wrong to completely disregard one life and jump to burning buildings for another when the circumstances were almost identical- only two differences one was black and one was white, one had no mental health issues and one had schizophrenia

I'd say, the results were almost identical - but the circumstances had really significant differences. Both situations have police that are desensitized to that level of violence. And in both instances, the men were restrained with their hands behind their backs, pinned down, and suffocated. But black men being targeted and killed by law enforcement in America is a very real problem. It's not all cops, and it's not all black men. But there's a serious, serious problem. I'm not saying that the mentally ill being ridiculed and discriminated against by many different authority figures in this country isn't also a problem...only that, these two events aren't as similar as they might look - because the underlying issues are not all the same.

It's not wrong....it's a different, more inclusive way of thinking.......one that validates all humanity and not just a portion.

Sure - it's not wrong. But: it's not what this is about.

Black lives have historically mattered significantly less than white ones, in America. And by "historically", I mean starting with slavery and going right up to today. Things can't be inclusive until there's an equal playing field, and this society is not there yet.

To believe otherwise is willful ignorance.

Racism in America is real. Right now, there's a huge and necessary focus on how Black people in this country have been devalued, dismissed - harmed. Not everyone believes that Black lives matter less than white lives. But it's a fact that people do. Acknowledging that is important, and that's why the Black Lives Matter movement matters.

Like all movements - it's got people with their hearts in the right place, and people with their hearts in the wrong place. I'm not saying it's perfect. But I think it's important, and there's no getting around it.

 

[TruthSeeker]

I don’t personally care about the event(S), or the resulting demonstrations/ riots one bit.

What I care about is the intersection of these demonstrations/riots, individual & govt response to them, and Cov19.

- Tens of thousands of protesters = hundreds of thousands of new infections in the coming weeks.
- The presidents inflammatory remarks and actions turning peaceful protests violent, driving tens of thousands more to the streets/creating all new protests/demonstrations/flooding the preexisting ones with even more and more people, infecting another exponential number of people, than were already being infected.
- The TREMENDOUS drain on already incredibly short resources (first response and medical, primarily, but also aid/focus/and a dozen other things)
- The vote of no confidence our leadership has earned, even from longtime supporters, up to and including organizations sworn to follow whether they agree or not.... and the absolute clusterf*ck that follows the power vacuum when the snake loses its head... right. in. the. middle. of. a. f*cking. pandemic.
- How that flows from top down > thousands of individuals -in my city alone- who both followed the stay at home orders, social distancing, AND curfews, are now violating all 3 to take to the streets... and how DANGEROUS laws/commands people won’t follow, and worse deliberately choose to break, are.
- How impossible it is to statistically model -and therefore PREPARE- for pandemic + military action on domestic soil + civil disobedience &/or the outright targeting of first response and military... the closest I understand we can come to that is the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, but even the Middle East settles down when there’s a plague on... we MAY be the first nation in the modern world to START SHIT during even a local, much less global health crisis (instead of waiting until afterward, like civilized people >.< Not that we’d be the first to go to war in winter with no food or clothing reserves, but I’ve been watching math guys attempt to insert those parameters into their models ... with such horrifying results let’s just all hope they’re wrong. So far “everyone” just agrees throwing such a Molotov cocktail into the mix as deploying the military creates a series of events we cannot predict, nor prepare for, except that there’s no scenario they can plug in where the results are “good” or even zero sum).
- Prioritizing of already incrediably limited resources ...across the board.
- Pirorities, full stop (public health crisis vs civil strife, federal vs state, lives vs property, etc.)
And on, and on, and on.

If there wasn’t a plague on? My feelings would be entirely different. But then, so too, would be the situation.

There’s a motherf*cking PANDEMIC, and our president is threatening his citizens with their own military??? I said it before, I’ll say it again, WTFO.

All I can reply is spot on......I'm afraid this situation with COVID/pandemic, DT, the gov't, has given people something to be angry about....... .....and it may get seriously much worse before it gets better.

 

[TruthSeeker]

I did not say it's wrong. Please actually read the link.

I was thinking like you before, too. But it's actually really harmful. Even if unintended.

It's not harmful to believe that all lives matter. This is how I believe in my heart and soul....part of my value system; it makes me different from others. I believe differently than many in my community who have significant and varied biases. I don't care about a person's skin color, age, sex, gender.....I care about them as a human being-all that we are can not be summed up in our color, race, our sex, our age, our religion-these are a part of who we are as a human being. We are all part of humanity...and if we all believed we were part of humanity.....and we all believed ALL LIVES MATTER than our world would be a much different place. If we believe that all human beings deserve to be treated with respect, regardless of our differences, wouldn't life be a much better place?

 

[siniang]

@TruthSeeker I’m asking again, please do read that link.

 

[TruthSeeker]

I think you're right - Floyd's murder has set off a problem that has been brewing, erupting, brewing, erupting...and I don't know that it would have gotten as big as it has, were it not also for the feelings running high anyway, due to the pandemic. A perfect storm, really.
I'd say, the results were almost identical - but the circumstances had really significant differences. Both situations have police that are desensitized to that level of violence. And in both instances, the men were restrained with their hands behind their backs, pinned down, and suffocated. But black men being targeted and killed by law enforcement in America is a very real problem. It's not all cops, and it's not all black men. But there's a serious, serious problem. I'm not saying that the mentally ill being ridiculed and discriminated against by many different authority figures in this country isn't also a problem...only that, these two events aren't as similar as they might look - because the underlying issues are not all the same.

Sure - it's not wrong. But: it's not what this is about.

Black lives have historically mattered significantly less than white ones, in America. And by "historically", I mean starting with slavery and going right up to today. Things can't be inclusive until there's an equal playing field, and this society is not there yet.

To believe otherwise is willful ignorance.

Racism in America is real. Right now, there's a huge and necessary focus on how Black people in this country have been devalued, dismissed - harmed. Not everyone believes that Black lives matter less than white lives. But it's a fact that people do. Acknowledging that is important, and that's why the Black Lives Matter movement matters.

Like all movements - it's got people with their hearts in the right place, and people with their hearts in the wrong place. I'm not saying it's perfect. But I think it's important, and there's no getting around it.

You are right, that people before us created a divided society with the institution of slavery. You and I have nothing to do with creating the past-we can only empathize. I think history can help us find answers and identify what worked and what didn't work as far as changing things to be more fair. Laws have changed as a result of hard work, boycotts, and demonstrations-and the acknowledgement that violence toward any race is not acceptable. It hasn't been that long ago that civil rights came about........and change takes time.....and wise moves on the part of those who really want and need change to happen.....but we know that history has proven that violence doesn't create the change needed to bring about equality between the races. Respect, tolerance, and an effort in understanding are key, in my opinion....and that takes communication, willingness, and time.

What happened to Mr. Floyd was atrociously wrong. But demanding justice by pushing back at the police, or looting/destroying, or amassing during a pandemic and increasing the likelihood of more cases of the virus spreading as a result of demonstrations, isn't the way to even the playing field either.

I revere Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr's civil rights work......and his approach to change with respect to civil rights...His belief in peaceful demonstration, like Gandhi's, set the path for change.....He was committed to his cause. He died fighting for Black people to have equal rights.....he was their leader ....his dream that men and women of all color and religions live in peace together and I believe this, too..........In my heart, I believe he would have been so very angry for what happened to Mr. Floyd, and highly disappointed to see the violence that has come about because of Mr. Floyd's wrongful death. And, will there ever be equality? If violence is the prevailing method used by demonstrators to seek reforms or respect and equality, or violence is the method used by police and law enforcement........I seriously doubt things will ever be equal. Violence only breeds violence.

 

[Freida]

There is a reason why all the violence is mainly contained to “gun free” cities. T

Not sure where you are getting the gun free thoughts. The three cities closest to me (Seattle, Portland, LA) aren't "gun free" and they are all having riots. In fact, Seattle and Portland are both in open carry states with minimal restrictions on public parks and government buildings. But you can walk down the street with an ak47 strapped on your back and it's legal.

and the police should get their consequences......

NO! The person who chose to commit a murder and happened to be a police officer should get HIS consequences.

There are almost 700,000 law enforcement officers in the US. Are a small percentage of them racist assholes? Yep -- because anytime you have 700,000 of any profession you are going to get bad ones who slip through the cracks. Sometimes it's even entire departments that goes bad and that is horrific and needs to be dealt with.

But the majority of them are decent people who want to make a difference in their community so they will put their lives on the line day after day to keep their towns and counties safe. And they die for it -- 92 since January 2020 alone have died protecting their communities. That's 18 a month - and that's not counting the ones who have been injured or died trying to break up the riots in just the last week. Chicago alone has had over 130 officers injured trying to stop them - and that is repeated across the US. What I find really interesting is when the officers who are injured or killed are African American and no one gives a shit. Seems to me like black lives matter - unless they are cops.

It's also frustrating that their injuries and deaths don't count because in the mind of america since someone wearing a cop uniform committed a crime therefore all cops are bad

Just like when someone with ptsd shoots another person therefore all people with ptsd are violent

This blow out was inevitable because we have a huge, huge problem with racism and social injustice in this country and now a pandemic and a reality show tv host as president. Yep - thats a recipe for chaos

But blaming an entire group of 700,000 people for the actions of a few? That's not justice. That's a distraction from the bigger problem.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Not sure where you are getting the gun free thoughts. The three cities closest to me (Seattle, Portland, LA) aren't "gun free" and they are all having riots. In fact, Seattle and Portland are both in open carry states with minimal restrictions on public parks and government buildings. But you can walk down the street with an ak47 strapped on your back and it's legal.


NO! The person who chose to commit a murder and happened to be a police officer should get HIS consequences.

There are almost 700,000 law enforcement officers in the US. Are a small percentage of them racist assholes? Yep -- because anytime you have 700,000 of any profession you are going to get bad ones who slip through the cracks. Sometimes it's even entire departments that goes bad and that is horrific and needs to be dealt with.

But the majority of them are decent people who want to make a difference in their community so they will put their lives on the line day after day to keep their towns and counties safe. And they die for it -- 92 since January 2020 alone have died protecting their communities. That's 18 a month - and that's not counting the ones who have been injured or died trying to break up the riots in just the last week. Chicago alone has had over 130 officers injured trying to stop them - and that is repeated across the US. What I find really interesting is when the officers who are injured or killed are African American and no one gives a shit. Seems to me like black lives matter - unless they are cops.

It's also frustrating that their injuries and deaths don't count because in the mind of america since someone wearing a cop uniform committed a crime therefore all cops are bad

Just like when someone with ptsd shoots another person therefore all people with ptsd are violent

This blow out was inevitable because we have a huge, huge problem with racism and social injustice in this country and now a pandemic and a reality show tv host as president. Yep - thats a recipe for chaos

But blaming an entire group of 700,000 people for the actions of a few? That's not justice. That's a distraction from the bigger problem.

@Freida No, not what I meant. Any person who does harm to another deserves to reap the legal consequences even if it is the electric chair.....A policeman kills Mr. Floyd in a violent act=legal consequences; man who loots/destroys or harms another =legal consequences. It comes down to if you break the law.....you deserve the legal consequences. I left off the word "man" sorry for miscommunication. I'm not in anyway meaning to infer that all policemen are racist....I agree with your thoughts that it is a minor percentage...

 

[Sideways]

but we know that history has proven that violence doesn't create the change needed to bring about equality between the races.

It took a lot of deaths to end World War II and bring about equality for Jewish throughout Europe. Violence can create change. Has done, many times over, throughout history. Sometimes for better, sometimes for worse. Always at an immense cost.

But violence is not necessary to create change - that's the point. It can be done peacefully. And if we can create change peacefully, that is always the path that we should go. The cost to all of us, of choosing the violent route, is incredibly high, and leaves wounds that can take centuries to heal.

It's not harmful to believe that all lives matter.

Not at all. In fact, the idea that all lives matter? Is the only reason that the statement "Black Lives Matter" has any relevance at all.

Your value, that all lives matter equally? Is at the very core of the current movement. And, when the lived reality of citizens is that all lives matter, then we can change the parade cry to "All lives matter".

But until All Lives Matter is the lived reality of all parts of socitety, the BLM statement is a reminder that we still have work to do yet.

"All Lives Matter" is the goal of this movement - BLM is a statement that it is not yet the reality. The statement that All Lives Matter is the goal, but we can only create change when we recognise change is required, by addressing it directly, and allowing ourselves to have the conversation not just about what we want to achieve (All Lives Matter), but what needs to change (which is the value of the BLM statement - it points to the problem, and brings it into an open space for us to acknowledge we're not getting this right, and we need change in certain specific areas).

So, when you see someone holding a placard that says "Black Lives Matter", they aren't saying that BLM because if you're born with black skin you matter. They're saying BLM because all lives matter. The BLM placard is agreeing with your sentiment that all lives matter, and is doing nothing more than pointing to a space where we need to work harder to make that reality.

 

[Rumors]

I'm never going to be for busing people in to cities to protest, hauling bricks to locations that make it easier to throw in to businesses, destroying property, breaking windows and stealing.
I am for the peaceful protest of George Floyd's murder by a police officer that had more than 10 complaints during his tenure as an officer. I am for investigating the Minn police departments code of ethics and how someone like that remained an officer. I am for setting strong limits to how people are contained. I much prefer stun guns quite frankly. It at least neutralizes the situation until it can be hashed out. I will march any street, kneel at any corner, have conversation with anyone about how we can stop this needless storyline from continuing another decade. I also want to talk about how we can end generational poverty in highly populated African American communities. Where I live, a college education is free. There is absolutely no reason why these kids aren't leaving high school and entering a college program. What keeps them from getting there? Generational poverty, addiction, isolation, broken homes, raised in violent homes, and the plethora of other sad issues that these kids are dealt. It's devastating and unfair and its time to break that cycle for them. We can create a better life for all of our children if we are willing to listen to their needs. Why aren't these cities/states with high criminal activity also offering free college tuition and opening colleges inside the very areas these kids are in trouble? Aside from parenting, why aren't we doing more in schools to help them get to these places to earn an education?
I just want to point out that there must be a meeting in the middle as well. Every side must be willing to do the work. My heart is heavy for this country. I identify as a conservative republican fiscally, but socially I am just an American that would like to find the opportunity that could come from this senseless death and make it the stepping stone to great things. I pray daily that some good will come from this. Much love to all....

 

[Ronin]

Well, respecting my personal boundary I'm not gonna educate people on why reverse racism isn't a thing, or any other theories on race itself (Google it. Go to school. People actually study intersectionality & all that jazz for years.)...

Obviously, I care for the cause.

However, I'm way more worried about the force action on the protesters, rioters that are only using the racial tensions, US President actions (I don't envy his advisors), the peaceful & assisting citizens caught in the hot zones, and the image it whole paints of the States abroad...

Than the issues sparking the riots.

Tl:dr More concerned of the impact & affected lives, and mypeople in affected cities or not, than else.

 

[rightkindofme]

You are right, that people before us created a divided society with the institution of slavery. You and I have nothing to do with creating the past-we can only empathize. I think history can help us find answers and identify what worked and what didn't work as far as changing things to be more fair. Laws have changed as a result of hard work, boycotts, and demonstrations-and the acknowledgement that violence toward any race is not acceptable. It hasn't been that long ago that civil rights came about........and change takes time.....and wise moves on the part of those who really want and need change to happen.....but we know that history has proven that violence doesn't create the change needed to bring about equality between the races. Respect, tolerance, and an effort in understanding are key, in my opinion....and that takes communication, willingness, and time.

What happened to Mr. Floyd was atrociously wrong. But demanding justice by pushing back at the police, or looting/destroying, or amassing during a pandemic and increasing the likelihood of more cases of the virus spreading as a result of demonstrations, isn't the way to even the playing field either.

I revere Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr's civil rights work......and his approach to change with respect to civil rights...His belief in peaceful demonstration, like Gandhi's, set the path for change.....He was committed to his cause. He died fighting for Black people to have equal rights.....he was their leader ....his dream that men and women of all color and religions live in peace together and I believe this, too..........In my heart, I believe he would have been so very angry for what happened to Mr. Floyd, and highly disappointed to see the violence that has come about because of Mr. Floyd's wrongful death. And, will there ever be equality? If violence is the prevailing method used by demonstrators to seek reforms or respect and equality, or violence is the method used by police and law enforcement........I seriously doubt things will ever be equal. Violence only breeds violence.

I suggest you go and read a bit more about MLK: By the end of his life, Martin Luther King realized the validity of violence