News Events around the George Floyd protests and riots, US and beyond

[Mee]

Snort. Yeah. Hear you on hair care, loud.

Feel like something quippy 'Glad I'm not for people with scissors near my neck anyway, so it's a non issue', but sympathies on the hardships given you *want* that pro hair care - and it isn't available.

And nah, not a white woman complaining, if you literally aren't white. Doesn't matter how things look so much, but what realities & experience is.

I am essentially white- I am aware of the mix -it shows up genetically in me a tiny bit more than it has in any one else in family but you only know when you know.


It’s like the genetic test thing - my husband is jewish. It was a big issue for part of his family - secret - hidden. Family in camps etc. Very loving memory trauma. Well - he took a dna year this year And he isn’t even JEWISH!!!! But he is still ‘jewish’.

I really like some genetic reveals when people with difficult racist attitudes find out they are not what they thought . And I guess this is where some ‘colour blind’ stuff comes in. Because they literally were blind To themselves and others have been blind to things they say are inherited or culturally inherited ( rather than socially imposed) factors.

My sibling opposed my marriage to a Jew. Also lives in fear of I don’t know who - her kids? - finding out the best boyfriend she ever had was no mistaking a black guy . She looks like her dad - ( bottle) blonde - blue eyes.



I think the ‘Elizabeth warren’ type discussion is interesting Here. She has been pilloried by ‘both sides too. Has full white privilege, but I have no problem and infact think it’s sensible she owns her history ( as long as doesn’t capitalise on it) . For me it makes a big break down of the idea we are distinct Genetically and that appearance can have huge impact on perceived expectations.


Re hair in my previous pre trauma exploration on an ‘adult’ on line venue I noted that responses I got were hugely different if my hair were. ‘Straighter’ ( like Caucasian typical curls- big curls’) or curly. White appearing in both . I always found it fascinating cultural observation.


And no - I leave race options blank but I’d force tick white because looking at me that’s what people see and what my experience is. It’s a privilege and I am lucky . White isn’t a slur. I just don’t think it should be what it is -

 

[user27357]

but what realities & experience is.

I tried to call out a friend on what he perceived as a slight against him once. I didn't see it, I know the person that he thought had been acting in a racist way against him and I just didn't see it. he told me something I never forgot: "blue eyes are blind'. I don't have blue eyes, I am not blind but I am white and I had to admit that just because my experiences hadn't led me to a place where I would see the racism didn't mean it didn't exist.
I had to think about prejudice.
yes, I am prejudiced.
There are religions that I cannot stomach, and if someone is a member of that religion I cannot stomach them. that's not prejudicial for anything but an ideology, I wouldn't think any different if they were black or white or purple, they made that choice and if I am aware of it I slam them with a lot of preconceived negativity. I treat them with disdain without shame.
I am prejudiced against rich people's adult children. I expect them to be arrogant and likely narcissistic. That's NOT right. They didn't make a choice to be rich, but their upbringing has most likely made them who they are and my experiences with them have led me to where I am. I am wrong to be prejudiced against them but I am and keep it to myself.
I think it's a spectrum of prejudice, some of which I cannot see because I have never felt it or seen it through the eyes of a victim of it.

I haven't watched the news yet this morning-I hope there are more stories about peaceful protesters stopping the violent riotous groups among them.

 

[user27357]

I have to disagree. And even if you do think I'm being picky about the language that is used it's cos that's all we've got. Language.

yeah, thats right. If I had a call (as a firefighter) to a riot, I would cinch down my helmet a little tighter for sure. The dispatcher would be using the description given by the caller and thats the word they might use. The first cop there might see it differently and call it a civil disruption but if there was an injury I am still 3 till I get there.

If these aren't riots, I guess they will do until the riot gets here.:)

I wanted to post a link but am not sure about wikipedia copyright so I just ask that you look up "2011 vancouver stanley cup riots".

I stand behind my statement that as riots go these have been somewhere between a big barfight and a soccer riot.

It is all just the chosen words for describing what we see and the confusion around just what we are seeing and how to describe it is definitely a perplexing pool.

to ME, a riot involves lots of people getting hurt and the tough decision someone has to make to unleash the full power available to restore order.

Do you think anyone is thinking about large scale containment areas and wholesale arrests using whatever level of response is necessary yet? (besides that one guy with the hair) neither do I. That would BE a riot, this is CALLED a riot.

 

[Rose White]

People of color usually *don't* have an issue with *white people*.

I agree. Which I think is related to why some people use the term “reverse racism” to highlight incidents where people of color go after people who are white. But I question whether generalizations are helpful in this discussion.

If I say, “Men are violent and shouldn’t be allowed in positions of power,” is it helpful? What if I change it to “most men”? What if I say, “Women usually don’t have a problem with men, just violent men.”

I think my point becomes clearer if I switch the roles. “Women are emotionally unstable and shouldn’t be allowed in positions of power—most women. Men usually don’t have a problem with women, just unstable ones.”

Words do matter. General semantics has never been more relevant, I believe.

I think some people who identify as white accept generalized statements about “white people” because they say, “Except for me, they’re not talking about me. People of color don’t have a problem with me. They’re talking about other white people. I’m okay with myself because I know their real meaning. Anyone who questions what they’re saying doesn’t understand the true meaning like I do.”

But why make the generalizations in the first place?

When I make a generalization it’s because I don’t know better and I’m trying to understand, or I’m lazy in my thinking.

If the term “white people” means “institutional racism” then why not say that? Leaving it up to the listener to determine the meaning allows for division, and then to blame the listener when they say “that’s not me,” because they should have known the meaning? :/

To be clear, I am not directing this at anyone here. I am exploring why some people consider it okay to make generalizations about white people then if someone says “not all white people” that’s considered like an act of violence. Is it the timing? Is there a societal understanding that “white people” means something else? That’s why I thought maybe it was a form of grief to make those generalizations, and therefore excusable, knowing that the person wouldn’t make that generalization if they weren’t processing a tremendous amount of generational pain.

 

[Rose White]

I read more about this and I see that what I am talking about is termed white fragility. It’s not appropriate for me, a person who looks and acts white, to say “not all white people” to a person of color who is talking about white people in any way. It’s not my place, it’s not my conversation.

On social media, if a black person is talking about white people, I now understand that I am not their intended audience and they don’t want to hear from me.

I can listen but not respond. However, it IS my place to say “not all white people” to other white people. And it IS my place to listen to and have discussions with black people and other people of color about all kinds of issues.

I am such a slow learner and it is embarrassing, but I keep trying.

 

[joeylittle]

To be clear, I am not directing this at anyone here. I am exploring why some people consider it okay to make generalizations about white people then if someone says “not all white people” that’s considered like an act of violence. Is it the timing? Is there a societal understanding that “white people” means something else? That’s why I thought maybe it was a form of grief to make those generalizations, and therefore excusable, knowing that the person wouldn’t make that generalization if they weren’t processing a tremendous amount of generational pain.

I think timing has a lot to do with it. Because yes, there is a tremendous amount of generational pain - and it's made more painful by the fact that these horrors inflicted on Black Americans haven't yet been fully, openly acknowledged. The civil rights movement has done, and continues to do good work - but, it's often done these things by leaping ahead to how to make things better, without talking about what was wrong in the first place.

In the US, there's never been anything close to consensus about slavery having been wrong, or about the trafficking of Africans to America being wrong. We don't talk about the large percentage of the population that has remained resentful of Affirmative Action, of the NAACP....I mean, people were deeply uncomfortable with having a Black man as our president. People thinking that wearing black-face to a costume party is somehow OK, because....why? I believe that's a great example of how we don't even teach (or talk about) our own history in a way that acknowledges just how f*cked up that whole phenomenon is.

My point is - there's been a kind of willful, sometimes passive/sometimes active ignorance on behalf of the white majority - the citizenry - when it comes to being upfront about our own history. We want to say, "well, that's not me, I'm not like that". Problem is, that ends up shutting down the entire conversation. I don't need to have slave owners on my family tree to be able to say that I'm connected by virtue of my skin color to a very terrible belief system that was pervasive and I am sorry for that pain that's been caused.

There are plenty of Americans (past AND present) who truly believe that Black lives do not matter as much as white ones. That's the bottom line. And we've reached the moment in our collective history where people are not going to accept that, anymore. And we can't just fast-forward past the history...uncomfortable as it is to acknowledge it.

 

[Mee]

I read more about this and I see that what I am talking about is termed white fragility. It’s not appropriate for me, a person who looks and acts white, to say “not all white people” to a person of color who is talking about white people in any way. It’s not my place, it’s not my conversation.

On social media, if a black person is talking about white people, I now understand that I am not their intended audience and they don’t want to hear from me.

I can listen but not respond. However, it IS my place to say “not all white people” to other white people. And it IS my place to listen to and have discussions with black people and other people of color about all kinds of issues.

I am such a slow learner and it is embarrassing, but I keep trying.

You might like the Robin DiAngelo book about this subject.


I think we are ALL learning . All the time. And that we will keep getting it wrong and that it becomes ‘dangerous’ when we think we have THE answers.

Still it’s stressful. I’d like to find a better resting place between learning and stressing.

 

[Mee]

I think timing has a lot to do with it. Because yes, there is a tremendous amount of generational pain - and it's made more painful by the fact that these horrors inflicted on Black Americans haven't yet been fully, openly acknowledged. The civil rights movement has done, and continues to do good work - but, it's often done these things by leaping ahead to how to make things better, without talking about what was wrong in the first place.

In the US, there's never been anything close to consensus about slavery having been wrong, or about the trafficking of Africans to America being wrong. We don't talk about the large percentage of the population that has remained resentful of Affirmative Action, of the NAACP....I mean, people were deeply uncomfortable with having a Black man as our president. People thinking that wearing black-face to a costume party is somehow OK, because....why? I believe that's a great example of how we don't even teach (or talk about) our own history in a way that acknowledges just how f*cked up that whole phenomenon is.

My point is - there's been a kind of willful, sometimes passive/sometimes active ignorance on behalf of the white majority - the citizenry - when it comes to being upfront about our own history. We want to say, "well, that's not me, I'm not like that". Problem is, that ends up shutting down the entire conversation. I don't need to have slave owners on my family tree to be able to say that I'm connected by virtue of my skin color to a very terrible belief system that was pervasive and I am sorry for that pain that's been caused.

There are plenty of Americans (past AND present) who truly believe that Black lives do not matter as much as white ones. That's the bottom line. And we've reached the moment in our collective history where people are not going to accept that, anymore. And we can't just fast-forward past the history...uncomfortable as it is to acknowledge it.

I think an additional point here is it is NOT historic. Impact is ongoing.
I’m going to leave that to suggestions made for reading over opinion.



But specific to slavery- slavery is outlawed and illegal but it remains on going. Kinda like —— ( sure my bias picks this example but it’s also a good one) rape.

It’s highly unlikely any of us haven’t interacted with slavery. Cheap goods- or parts in goods.

Porn is a huge contribution to it. The food industry .

And it’s in EVERY country in the world.

An estimated 40 million people are still in slavery.

So It’s kind of A bit - icky - to talk about it as a past issue. Like ‘we were racist in the past’. We did have sexism in courts in the past. No - this is current . And that’s compounded by the impacts - social, financial, and cultural Remain current and are ignored by many of us.

It’s really uncomfortable. I’m not lecturing for what it’s worth- learning some of this rocked my world and I am in a process that is ongoing over many many years dismantling this in me

 

[siniang]

I love seeing all the support from all over the world. Sends an important signal.

Around The World: Black Lives Matter | HuffPost

 

[siniang]

Also, this article from a few years ago came back to mind, highlighting - and kind of in line with some of what joylittle has written - why we've seen a surge in open racism in recent years, after the first black president, both towards (brown) immigrants as well as African-Americans.

As America Changes, Some Anxious Whites Feel Left Behind

Obviously no excuse and just part of the problem (think systemic and institutionalized racism), but I still found this a very interesting article. If we want real change, we have to have those open discussions instead of just throwing blame and guilt back and forth. Because even if some people like to paint it like it, and while it even may be in some parts, this is just not a one-dimensional problem.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

.I mean, people were deeply uncomfortable with having a Black man as our president.

But, there were A TON of people around me that only wanted Obama president, and only voted for him (admittedly) because he was black and that was "making history". I viewed that with the black population. Not sure if that plays in here. But that's the first thing that popped in my head when i read this. Cause that's what annoyed me the most about Obama becoming our President. I couldn't careless if he was black, white, hispanic, asian, or a mix of all or even if he was really muslim. I cared if he would make a good president or not and in my own view, the US lost sight of that.

On the other side of things, I saw no one who cared that he was black. Only those that were annoyed with the same thing.

Maybe that is my own prejudice or something playing into it to. I dunno. I was raised racist and though I have disagreed with most of my upbringing, some old stuff still holds on I suppose.

 

[Freida]

So I'm totally white privilege - but after being in the military I spent a lot of time with people of every color, creed and religion. I'm clueless a lot of times about black/Hispanic/Asian culture but i'll own it if I say or do something offensive, which my friends have no problem calling me out on and then educating me along the way. I think that is the main difference between clueless and racist -- one is willing to change.

I also have one thing going for me that other privilege people don't. I lived overseas as an american military member and people HATED us.

We were somehow less intelligent than the locals, they followed us around stores to see what we would steal, kept an eye on us in large groups, thought of us first if there was a problem, made comments as we walked by, and god help you if you got stopped by the police.
Plus they kept trying to kill us.

Does that mean I understand the experiences the minorities in America live with every day? Nope. But it did give me a window into their world that makes me realize how horrible our country can be for them.

It's not a problem that will change overnight because it affects EVERY aspect of their lives. Police issues are part of it, but they also suffer from everything from lack of medical care, to education to availability of grocery stores and banks in their neighborhoods. Fixing that is going to to take a long time.
As in generations.

Hopefully what is going on today is a start down that path - but for those who think getting rid of police is the answer? They are missing a big part of the problem.