News Events around the George Floyd protests and riots, US and beyond

[Mee]

I think I'd be careful pointing fingers at law enforcement community culture as a whole though.

I mean, I could start on all of those doctors killers I & mine had the displeasure to encounter, and nurses assisting them, not even starting on a paramedic this and that portion of my history...

And nope. Leads nowhere. Seeds more strife to point at whole professional community as crime committing douchebags with a cover.

They aren't.
Individuals are.
The whole profession isn't to blame.

That way lies madness, socially, and no growth, traumatic or personal, personally.

Hmm. Healthcare is statistically more dangerous for black women . Are there stats for black men? I presume there are that I haven’t seen?.

Racism does exist in these cultures, and sexism. Dismantling it is tough. I find my internalised misogyny really , really difficult to identify and deconstruct often. And - I just heard in my head again about the. colour blind. I don’t want to be seen as the same as a man just equal .



Can I take a moment to appreciate everyone’s temper and grace here? This is such tough stuff and I for one super appreciate having people who are prepared to address this stuff in ourselves -it’s difficult. It’s painful.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

He was accused of rape, however he lied his way out of it and everyone told the same story.

Reminds me that one of the cult's followers that I was raised in was a police officer. He was the one that always found me when I ran away to not only bring me back to the cult but to ensure I got the punishment that I "deserved" and he saw to it. He liked to use his gun as a weapon for rape. Raped at gun point.

He is also why I never told any police officer what was going on. If he wasn't there, the officers knew of him and would have his back no matter what. Not only was telling a death sentence for me but no one would believe me that this loved police officer would do something like that.

I know of only that one "bad apple" but I do know that his officer buddies all had his back in everything.

 

[Ronin]

Hmm. Healthcare is statistically more dangerous for black women . Are there stats for black men? I presume there are that I haven’t seen?.

Racism does exist in these cultures, and sexism. Dismantling it is tough.

Very Well Health.com has an interesting article to that effect, links supported within the article (my search term was 'black men health' via Duck Duck Go.)

Black Men's Health Project is another page worth giving a glance, if interested.

 

[Mee]

Very Well Health.com has an interesting article to that effect, links supported within the article (my search term was 'black men health' via Duck Duck Go.)

Black Men's Health Project is another page worth giving a glance, if interested.

Thanks Ronin ?. I’m grateful and sorry you are having to educate me. I should have done that search .

I can only apologise and say that having been not at my window of tolerance for a few weeks it’s approaching that now but I don’t want to make that an excuse to not work at this .

 

[siniang]

To that part of 'other countries do far more deescalation / don't use guns'. Both factually incorrect.

For the same scenarios, like responding to a riot call and going to both a developing (not enough intel, rapid changing information) and volatile situation? You can bet the officers would go with the same kit & gear anywhere... if their dept isn't a total f*ckup that doesn't keep their employees safe, that is.

Absolutely of course do police officers in other countries have guns and at no point did I say police brutality, including deadly one, doesn't exist in other countries.

But no. It's not factually incorrect. Just because an officer does have a gun and could theoretically use it? Doesn't mean he or she actually will.

1,536 killed by law enforcement in the US.

Whereas my country, as I mentioned, averages at around 10 for years.

And don't argue with "higher population" bla bla...

List of killings by law enforcement officers by country - Wikipedia

It does come down to a "shoot first, ask later" mentality. It does come down to widespread armed gang violence and hence police having to assume that certain groups in the US when they encounter them? Probably armed.

In contrast, around 85 officers are killed each year in the US.

List of law enforcement officers killed in the line of duty in the United States - Wikipedia

(The UK, for example, has about 1-2ish/year List of British police officers killed in the line of duty - Wikipedia
Australia? List of Australian Federal Police killed in the line of duty - Wikipedia)

 

[Ronin]

@Mee, nothing to apologize for & also not feeling pushed to anything & yah. Double nothing to apologize for. You asked an interesting and to the thread relevant question, I went to check what can be linked, it's all good. :tup:

@siniang

Consider the size of the entire country, the total number of crime, the fact it's actually higher as not all crime is reported / or prosecuted, for one.

Consider the fact as to LODD statistics, especially of Wikipedia of all places, may be incomplete.

There are *so* many reasons to not release all of the LODD data to the public, especially not the kind of public servers anyone can access.

Aka again. The factual figures wouldn't necessarily correspond to someone's Wikipedia list.

Third? Basically anyone can edit Wikipedia. Not the best choice of source... nor guaranteed professionality or actual insight to the issues.

Did you -seriously- cite just Wiki... for all of your arguments here? Eyerolling.

Plus, that focus on guns, as was pointed out by SO many people in the thread, is just absurd - and not really relevant.

And let me ask you a personal one, since you like to focus on your guns...

How many times have you stared into the barrel of someone's gun, in your life?

And how many times was the gun held to the head of someone you love? Or your child? Or -a- child?

 

[siniang]

I cited Wiki because it gave the best overview/comparison. I didn't wanna go digging in official statistics for individual countries at 7:30 in the morning before my first coffee...

Your posts scream *fingers in ears and lalala*, just to keep trying to push a certain narrative.

And no, I never stared into the barrel of someone's gune. I never had a loved one with a gun to my head. Because my country doesn't have a friggin love for guns where every other persons thinks they NEED a gun. You know what? I have home intrusion trauma.... but at least I didn't have to fear for my life at gun point... which is one of the #1 reasons cited for the private person to own a gun in the US.

Keep saying "guns have nothing to do with this discussion" - while I remain convinced it IS part of the problem. It is NOT the ONLY problem. But it is part. (cue Breonna Taylor, hu?) And not even being willing to have this very discussion? Major ignorance, if not even arrogance. And yes, I know you're not American.

 

[Ronin]

I'm not feeling like taking your ad hominem attacks & baits personally...

But let me tell you something.
In those gun examples?
I wasn't talking about the US ;)
Nor any country of conflict.

Aka your derail - and ignorance - about crime? And it being somehow US problem? Are reaally closer to 'pushing a certain narrative' than anything I've said here. ;)

 

[blackemerald1]

Maybe wait you've had your coffee & research some more reliable stats then cos whilst Wikipedia can be interesting & informative, it's not reliable. Go for facts.

Guns n knives are everywhere. But I'm assuming you still have the latter in the drawer at your home?

Anything can be used as a weapon. Even a pillow.

Point is whilst regulations can assist with legal ownership & use, it's the illegal owners & uses that necessitate police & similar agencies to need them.

Taking guns off the good guys doesn't make anyone safe - does it?

Seriously, are you saying that in the moment you were suffering your trauma you reflected on the weapons your assailant didn't have?

 

[siniang]

I'm out - not meaning to turn this into a gun debate. Because....not the right thread. And also pointless.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

I saw "I can't breath" written on the back of someone's car here at my apartment complex. I guess that's the protest saying?

 

[Sideways]

They didn't know he, George Floyd was going to die so there was no calculation or process where they stopped and considered their career vs a civilians life

Then that's a problem. Because...he did. Obviously 8 minutes of human body weight on his neck went badly for him. Death was a reasonably likely outcome.

Not my personal opinion there, either - the charges against Chauvin have been upgraded to Murder 2. The accusation against him is if he didn't realise he was killing Mr Floyd, he should have. And the remaining cops did nothing to stop him, when they should have.

My post was responding to a series of hypothetical reasons that had been offered as to why police might behave this way. My point was: it's still not okay to behave this way.

Big statement but not true. What powers do you mean? What toxicity do you refer to?

Again, my post was referencing Freida's post. Reasons she had suggested as to why police might behave this way. And my point was: still not acceptable.

But in a high stress situation, just as in the military, you do what you're told or you will quite possibly die

For police, where there will be many encounters every day where their lives are not at risk, like the situation with George Floyd (he was accused of possibly using a dodgy $20 note - that's it), police have to behave like they're assisting a free and civilised society to stay free and civilised.

Repetitions of the dangers police have to be ready for? I get it. But this wasn't one of those situations. This was a situation where they had the suspect (of using a dodgy note) arrested, handcuffed, checked for weapons.

Police are working in a very different situation to the military. The assumption isn't that the enemy are everywhere and ready to kill you - you're surrounded by your own citizens, and your job is to protect them, treat with dignity when they don't pose any kind of threat to police or anyone else, and keep them safe.

I honestly don't see how repetitions of what is required of police in high stress situations adds anything other than paltry excuses to a discussion about what happened to George Floyd.

Floyd had been arrested and was being taken into custody. At that point, the police become responsible for ensuring Floyd's safety. That's why repeatedly referencing what the police and military have to be ready for is unhelpful.

Because the job of the police is to contribute to keeping their own citizens safe, and free. Keeping the streets of a free and civilised society free and civilised - not turning them into a place where any police interaction might result in death.