Do You Think Sympathy Really Helps In The End?

[Tinyflame]

I guess like anni said until we can define what happened and name it- include 'ourselves' just as we would (usually always) give that matter-of-fact acceptance to others if or when something occured to them- we will keep re-enacting the trauma. At least that's how I took it from the book "Women Who Hurt Themselves..", that we have to (for the first time in our life, usually) 'look back' and afford the empathy to ourselves we would give to any stranger/ child in the same circumstances. Usually it comes as a "shock". I can see though like anni said how without it the ptsd can't really be addressed properly, in so far as you can't deal with something traumatic or it's effects on you if you never acknowledge it as traumatic/ the facts of it/ deny it/ ignore it (despite evidence to the contrary)/ minimize it/ blame yourself/ never view things from another perspective (eg. "...No, not all of our decisions may have been self-protective but we didn't walk into anyone's fist'). To be able just to say, "I felt ('x'- horrible etc) then, no wonder I thought ('x'), did ('x') ", etc. (It makes more sense then).
Then, carry on.

 

[Tinyflame]

What I meant to add is that if anyone can help us do that safely, and accurately, without being left feeling self-defeated for the future, but more 'healed' instead- seems to me it doesn't matter what the kind of delivery or words are, something's on the right track.

 

[Marie E.]

I think sympathy helps when it can, but empathy helps me more.

 

[Abstract]

Thanks so much for this thread, Philippa.
It has really come to the fore in my mind recently. Because I am attempting to support someone on a forum who is very victim/martyrr minded and becasue I have had an experience in t that I am struggling with.

I do think it is worthwhile specifying what we mean by a sympathetic response and a confrontational one.

To me a sympathetic response is one delivered in a gentle way or with understanding whether it comes with challenges or not. I don't think a response that gives a challenge automatically becomes a confrontational one.

Confrontation to me is something delivered in an unsympathetic, harsh or critical way.

Wether confrontation is helpful or not I believe comes down to the state the person on the receiving end is in; previous trauma they may have experienced; their personality and the intention of the person doing the confronting.

Interpersonal trauma is a big part of my issues. I am soooo much better now but was literally an exposed nerve ending in the past. I also hated any one seeing me as a victim and pretended I was more ok than I was. That was a big problem and stopped me being helped.
For me to admit to my vulnerabilities is really important and harshness just shames me into deeper self hatred and worsened trauma symptoms.

I don't think one size fits all with these things and a lot depeds on previous trauma and personality. I believe it is really important to try to find out the patterns someone has had in the past and present and if we don't know what they are then a middle ground is best. Challenges given with understanding or care.

I feel I have been retraumatized by my last t session.
Sorry for the long post!

 

[just me here]

Empathy is what I came here for, It is what I try to give back.

Letting someone know when their actions are crossing a borderline keeps the communication open and serves to save the relationship. If that means telling someone there will be no sympathy provided so don't come seeking it, it is an act of kindness if you follow it up with empathy and an honest attempt to help ease their suffering.

Working as an EMT faced with multiple traumas, I learned that the victims that were mobile, loud, and demanding sympathy were the ones that needed nothing more from me than a job to do while I helped the people that couldn't scream and yell and seek sympathy. When I told them to hold pressure on a bleeding wound or to go help the other emt's haul in gear when they arrived while I moved on to the next victim, they shut right up and fealt better about their own situation. Hard to do, but an act of kindness in the final wash.

This forum is not a multiple trauma scene, and I would never criticize anyone for seeking sympathy here, but if I see someone else tell them to knock it off, I know from my training and experience that it can be an act of kindness.

 

[Abstract]

"Just me here",
What about the ones who are quiet and appear fine? How would you respond to them and with what tone? Just interested.
I can imagine why giving people a task would help them feel empowered and calmer.

 

[just me here]

the only way I would ever miss a quiet one that appeared fine would be to be involved with the loud one that demanded attention. And healing starts with having confidence that the care you are getting is of high quality and will get the job done. My tone was always one of calm reassurance.

Don't worry, that was a big part of triage, learning that anyone on scene could be the most in need, you couldn't tell by asking questions or just looking around, you needed vitals and an asessment to begin to have an opinion about need. One thing you could observe and be pretty sure of, if they could scream they could breathe, and if they could walk they could help.

I have been the silent one that appeared fine myself. I owe my life to the people that knew I wasn't sleeping because I was tired.

this was just an analogy about people that seek sympathy, don't put too much into it. I only used it to try to give creedance to the idea that witholding sympathy can be the right thing to do.

 

[Xibalba]

As someone else rightly pointed out, there's a difference between sympathy and empathy. I think we need the empathy of some people, especially our therapists. From our immediate support group (assuming we have one), we need compassion. That's simply understanding on the part of the other person, and acceptance. They don't need to give or do anything, they just need to BE THERE in a loving way.

I don't have that right now, so am only speaking from theory.

 

[just me here]

They don't need to give or do anything, they just need to BE THERE in a loving way.

I don't have that right now, so am only speaking from theory.

Actually, if you can accept it as genuine, people on this forum are there for you.

I can relate to feeling like you don't have it right now, check my user name. It is "just me" here. Besides my wife that I don't want to scare with the knowledge of how dark my existance can sometimes be, I have a support group of paid therapists and anonymous fellow sufferers here.

days like this one when I feel like I am slowly losing the will to continue, I find that knowing there are others with the same feelings and problems helps me stay away from the thoughts of being nuts and beyond help.

 

[anthony]

There is a time and place for sympathy vs. empathy vs. compassion vs. truth.

The truth should always be told, but then not saying anything is also not lying.

Sympathy is an essential emotion immediately after a traumatic event, ie. the lose of a loved one, etc, does require sympathy the first time around.

Sympathy is completely destructive, and IS an enabling behaviour if given to people, or wanted from people, who are ongoing a traumatic event. Empathy should be given in combination with the truth, however; as already stated, if the person is not moving in the right direction, then the cold hard facts need to be laid on the table and then let the person sit on those facts, those truths... and they will decide at some point after obtaining that information whether it is correct or not.

You cannot force someone to want to get better, they must really want it themselves. A majority of people who attend therapy, don't actually want to get better, they want sympathy, they want to be recognised as suffering something traumatic, and a counsellor will often give them that luxury for payment.

Everything has a time and place... with PTSD, sympathy is not one emotion that can be afforded, as it is a negative at the stage of PTSD, ie. if you have PTSD, and I mean the actual disorder, not just normal reaction after a traumatic event, then the time has passed beyond where sympathy had validity, to where now empathy is the only supportive emotion warranted that is not negative. If the person has been this way for years, and still seeking sympathy, then they need the cold hard truth to shake them up a little and get them to decide to move in a positive direction, or remain stagnant within a negative cycle of self abuse and pity.

 

[Tinyflame]

I think compassion can be offered, +/or support or understanding and forgiveness, as regards specific challenges or 'events' or meltdowns, but I agree that empathy, lack of denial, absence of self pity, brutal honesty, responsibilty and constant hard work and commitment and determination (from the sufferer) is needed at the same time for long-term management and progress, to 'face the demons': that is, PTSD (and living with it) 'is what it is', that's the reality; now what can be done about it to manage it?
I agree with abstract as to the flexibility of the form of confrontation, that:

" Wether confrontation is helpful or not .. comes down to the state the person on the receiving end is in; previous trauma they may have experienced; their personality and the intention of the person doing the confronting",

And that:

" I .. was literally an exposed nerve ending in the past. I also hated any one seeing me as a victim and pretended I was more ok than I was. That was a big problem and stopped me being helped.
For me to admit to my vulnerabilities is really important and harshness just shames me into deeper self hatred and worsened trauma symptoms."

JMHO and personal experience, of course.

 

[Philippa]

"Just me here",
What about the ones who are quiet and appear fine? How would you respond to them and with what tone? Just interested.
I can imagine why giving people a task would help them feel empowered and calmer.

I think all you can do in that situation is, without being too confronting, let them know that if there is anything they need to speak about and don't feel like they can come to anyone else, that you are there for them , to listen.