Harness Your Inner Sociopath?

[freakofnurture]

The thinking goes like this:

1. I don't actually care what other people think or feel; I only fear that they'll hate me and I usually feel like I have no control over their like/dislike of me.
2. I have the pathological feeling that I have to earn everything, and even then I don't deserve it or it was handed to me or I was just lucky.
3.1 I am psychologically ill, always have been and (likely) always will be, because no one in my f*cked up f*mily got off their fat asses to protect me - they knew something was wrong, they only thought someone else would take care of it, they told me so themselfs.
3.2 I don't owe anything to anybody, especially not to people whom I don't even know; if they're easy to manipulate, it's a state of affairs that I encounter and can deal with at my own discretion.

From this follows:
1. I need to take control of social situations by consciously influencing other people's emotions and behaviours in a way that makes them not dislike me.
2. I need to learn to take, claim and value what's rightfully mine.
3.1 I have every right to take from my extended family; especially when they even make offers.
3.2 Nothing prohibits me taking from aquaintances.

From this follows:
I should start to be manipulative so I can be sure to get what I deserve.

The only thing that keeps me shying away from this conclusion is my crippling fear of being actively disliked. Manipulative people are generally disliked.
The reason why I dislike manipulative people is that manipulation is a route that bypasses the honest contest of discussion. But, seriously, I have done way more honest discussion within my extended family than could be expected from me. I still don't get what I deserve. So I should pull out the big guns and start fighting dirty.

 

[intothelight]

I should start to be manipulative so I can be sure to get what I deserve.

The only thing that keeps me shying away from this conclusion is my crippling fear of being actively disliked. Manipulative people are generally disliked.

The reason why I dislike manipulative people is that manipulation is a route that bypasses the honest contest of discussion. But, seriously, I have done way more honest discussion within my extended family than could be expected from me. I still don't get what I deserve. So I should pull out the big guns and start fighting dirty.

Personally, I believe that manipulation is a negative behavior and thought process. It is not something I like in others, and definitely not something I would like in myself. You even stated why you dislike manipulative behavior, so why do something to add what you would dislike about yourself? Another true statement you made, is that manipulative people are generally disliked. Again, not a behavior I would want to engage in as I want to build strong, healthy relationships.

I understand the feeling of not getting what we deserve and it isn't fair. The sense of injustice is hurtful, but in reality we don't always get what we deserve, and I don't want to compromise myself as a means to address the hurt.

Just a thought.

Deb

 

[freakofnurture]

I'm mostly with you, there. Manipulative behaviour is generally bad.
The question is, though, if manipulation is still so bad after all honest means have been used to no avail. In the case of my extended ancestry I am up against a huge wall of defense mechanisms - mostly self-serving interpretations, blaming the victim and bagatellisation. These mechanisms are, albeit unconscious, pretty dishonest and serve to maintain high self-esteem and wellbeing at my expense.
I have tried to get through by honest means and I failed. Can I really just give up and be a victim?

 

[jesse]

Becoming manipulative will only make things worse. There are ways to deal with this pain that are healthy and it is up to you to decide. Manipulation is the easy route but will make you someone it sounds like you don't really want to be i.e. you say you dislike that behavior. Do you really want to hurt others the way you have been hurt by being manipulative? That only makes you one of them. By the way sociopaths have no feelings so they could care less if they are liked or not so don't judge yourself so harshly by attaching that label to you.

 

[intothelight]

These mechanisms are, albeit unconscious, pretty dishonest and serve to maintain high self-esteem and wellbeing at my expense.
I have tried to get through by honest means and I failed. Can I really just give up and be a victim?

I can't tell you what to do, I can only tell you what I did. I decided to be true to myself, took the high road, walked away and ultimately said "screw them". They are far more messed up than I will ever be, even on my worst day.

Deb

 

[Philippa]

This society is geared towards being dishonest. The whole system encourages dishonesty, so it's not always easy to maintain your natural desire to want to be honest...and watching other people get away with being manipulative and seemingly getting everything they want at someone elses expense can be discouraging. many people consider manipulative people to be smart in this world...as though it is a virtue to trick people and hurt others to get where you want to go. Sociopaths are sharks in the foodchain...it's just a fact.

Maybe there is an evolutionary need for them which we are unable to recognize thus far, and I've often been envious of their ability to just have no emotions to have to deal with and they can literally do whatever the hell they want and get away with it, and not ever once worry about who they've hurt. Man, what a life they must have...but they also miss out on something so integral to being human...emotions! Emotions are what help us be strong...and that's something they will never know or experience.

I can see how you would think that this is the way to go..."if you can't beat 'em, join 'em"...and it's up to you of course. I personally would not want to become the very thing I despise so much in this world. I still have to live with myself at the end of the day. Being honest is challenging, since lying is so acceptable these days and no one really cares...but being honest just feels better, and I've felt bad for too long. I'm all about feeling good now.

 

[anni]

Hi Freakofnurture,

I don't know, I think I see an awful lot of hurt here, and then an awful lot of disclaimers as to why it's better to avoid being hurt more by allowing one to be re-engaging with the same people who hurt you in the first place. To do this, if I'm reading this correctly, would involve ( or does ) you 'having to' resort to manipulations and behaviours you yourself seem to view from a spectrum which range from self-admonishing to self-congradulatory although they are all self described in negative contexts.

As Deb said, yes, walk away. Why re-engage at all, especially since you're obviously bright enough to have ascertained that none of this is at all healthy, positive or productive from any perspective? All the thought and energy expended on whatever this 'project' may be could be then spent like some bright new gold coin on an entirely new life, unecumbered by the tentacles which are holding you to your past, physically in the form of people ( and their possesions-whatever it is you're saying 'take' of ) and psychologically.

 

[Brontie]

This may not go down too well but sticking around people who berate you and bring you down is a form of self-punishment. As is berating and bringing yourself down. I think we need to ask ourselves why we do this. Why do we believe we deserve to be punished?

 

[Ted Moen]

Ah, that good ol' stinking thinking! Made me think of the Moody Blues lyrics (probably terribly misquoted) "When you stop and think about it, and see the things you do, you find all this love you're giving is only ment for you." I loved the Moody Blues during one phase of learning to live with ptsd. Then they were replaced by "Look what you did to my world, Ma. Look what you did to my world. You took the only thing I could do half right and made it come out wrong, Ma."

Behavior is behavior. We behave in a way that is intended to satisfy some felt need. The challenge for people with ptsd is to learn to identify and focus on our current needs as opposed to acting out the old, intense feelings left over from a situation in which our needs were severely trampled on and our normal needs subordinated to the need to do whatever we needed to do to survive the moment, which may well have involved behavior that is normally considered very wrong.

We get our current needs met by acting normally in activities and relationships appropriate to our current situation. That's not being manipulative. But it is uncomfortable at first, because the old thoughts and feelings will attempt to intrude and generate a good deal of panic and anxiety along the way.

It's very hard to let the "stinking thinking" pass without acting on it and focus on participating appropriately in activities and relationships in our current situation. But that's our ongoing challenge. Don't let the "stinking thinking" tell you participating in current activities and relationships is wrong.

Ted

 

[Heather]

We get our current needs met by acting normally in activities and relationships appropriate to our current situation. That's not being manipulative. But it is uncomfortable at first, because the old thoughts and feelings will attempt to intrude and generate a good deal of panic and anxiety along the way.

That's part of the problem is learning how to "act normally" around people and in everyday life. I know for myself that the anxiety and the panic is sooo overwhelming I feel like a total and complete freak. It makes it so hard to function as a normal human being. Some days it's just easier to hide under the covers.

 

[Abrasky]

I should start to be manipulative so I can be sure to get what I deserve.

Generally I have learned the lesson (when I was really young) that manipulation hurts other people. If you hurt other people you do get everything you deserve. Anything you get is fake, not real and you dont' have any intergrity any more, so if your not real your nothing. And if your nothing, you don't care about yourself. Well that's what I learned anyway! Stick to what you know is better for you. This is not a good way to get an unmet need is what I think about manipulating.

If your family are treating you bad, maybe some therapy will give you some more choices about how you respond to their behavior. If they are really toxic, maybe you might have to reconsider what role they have in your life. This reminds me of some quotes.

“Peace is not the absence of conflict, but the ability to cope with it” unknown author

If you hate your parents, the man or the establishment, don't show them up by getting wasted and wrapping your car around a tree. If you really want to rebel against your parents: outearn them, outlive them, and know more than they do
- Henry Rollins

 

[Xibalba]

Sociopathy is more common than you think. This is an interesting book:

Dead Link Removed (Amazon link)