Communicating With Members Off The Forum

[anthony]

After a string of complaints against a member here, I have reviewed all forum correspondence which ascertains no breach of forum policy has occurred, nor any wrong doing upon this forum by the member.

There is a problem with how members go about things regarding PTSD Forum, and how they communicate with other members, some of which pisses me off, some of which I feel empathetic towards others here due to the abuse endured, though regardless of your personal choices, this forum is what I manage, I do not manage your lives or how you choose to communicate with people off this forum.

1. The worst thing you can do is lie to me or staff about something that is said upon this forum, as we all talk within a private staff area, and there is nothing I cannot see. This includes trying to find the most empathetic staff member and manipulate them to act against another member, because it doesn't work that way here, and all complaints come back to staff conversation. We have staff policy to prevent the exact things I am well aware of, and used to, based on running a mental health forum.
2. You have been abused, are vulnerable, yet go and share with a perfect stranger your personal name, email, facebook information, etc etc, with them, to communicate off the forum itself. I even read the absolute stupidest things from some women, to men here, such as "I trust any member of this forum sharing my info with them." Seriously... how did you come to that determination, when I state exactly the opposite.

Staff of PTSD Forum are not here to pickup the pieces of your personal mistakes on how you choose to communicate off this website with other members. I have just gone through IM, chat and PC's about recent issues, and no stalking or forum rules have been broken, as things that are stated or said are off the forum via email and other technologies.

I have always answered the question about privacy here the same, clearly stating, I can see everything, so therefor I can protect people from abuse to an extent here, on this forum only, to the best of my ability. I cannot however do a thing when you choose to take communication off this forum.

Seriously people... have you not been abused enough already? Why would anyone consider thinking you are going to have some BFF via this forum because you both have PTSD? That is not realistic life, that is lining yourself up for further abuse. From members coming to staff wanting action against another because they sucked them down into a depressive hole via phone conversation or someone is now stalking you because you gave them personal information about yourself to place yourself in such a position... NOT the responsibility of PTSD Forum or its management. I clearly tell people, sympathy is not valid with PTSD, empathy only... and empathy has rules, sympathy gets you sucked down a depressive black hole yourself or abused. Empathy keeps a person at arms length to protect yourself when you don't really know them.

This isn't avoidance, I get sick and tired of stressing to people how much you should value your privacy and security, not share personal forms of communication, etc, with other members, and instead communicate only via this forum where you can report things, conversations ARE recorded, so we can then take action and ban people... yet members choose not to do such, instead do the opposite, then come back to forum staff wanting action for things we have no control over, nor we have any right to have such control over.

If you don't want to communicate with someone, then don't. Nobody is forcing you to respond, you don't have to be nice and friendly to someone and respond to their PC, you don't have to share pictures, email, phone, facebook, IM names, etc etc... there is zero requirement. IF you do however, then you do so accepting that you have now removed any further issues from the powers of PTSD Forum staff, and are taking responsibility for a personal decisions outside of PTSD Forum.

If you give someone your email, and you then send it to me that they threatened you, there is nothing I can do about that because it wasn't done on this website. I have no right or power to remove a person from this forum unless they break the rules, or we suspect they are doing something, ie. targeting specific types of people via this forum, which is not the case here.

PTSD Forum cannot hold your hand and tell you what to do, you must take responsibility for your actions the moment you step away from this forums communication systems, which is the extent of our control for validity that something was said or occurred. Emails, third party IM's, etc... all can be doctored and changed, and PTSD Forum have no validity to ascertain originality.

Nicolette and I organise a get together, and we do so in very public locations, because we don't know people and they don't know us, so the safest thing for everyone involved is to be in a very public, busy place... its called commonsense, and to be perfectly honest, more members need to start using it when communicating privately with other members of this forum.

PTSD Forum has people with mental illness, unstable, moods, personality disorders, the list goes on. What serious part of safety concerns don't you see about that?

Please, I beg members, use commonsense. Because someone gives you their email, its not tit for tat, you don't have to give them yours, or phone numbers, etc. If you do, then don't bring it back onto this forum expecting action, because it won't happen. You then revert to local police, banning email accounts from contacting you through your email client, etc etc.... NOT PTSD Forums problem though.

 

[goingonhope]

Nicolette and I organise a get together and we do so in very public locations,

:whistling: Ya' and I always wish that I could show up and meet you two, and others in person. Smile and Shucks, ...not in the cards.

because we don't know people and they don't know us, so the safest thing for everyone involved is to be in a very public, busy place... its called commonsense, and to be perfectly honest, more members need to start using it when communicating privately with other members of this forum.

I'm sorry anthony for yours and mods latest aggravation. I'm not going to write about why the need for this thread pisses me off, (you've pretty much already said it, and maybe more). But I will say, I tend to not even trust complaints. It's probably all just my stuff, but I tend to automatically think that most complaints are people just causing trouble; Troublemakers another words.

I mean through using commonsense one pretty much learns that if you take a certain risk and get bad results it's not someone else's fault! So why complain to somebody else.

Personally, I've had good experiences through here...(communications off forum) and I think I have myself and my family of origin to credit for this. I've used enough of my commonsense and I've taken along with me everything I ever learned from:

mental illness, unstable, moods, personality disorders, the list goes on. What serious part of safety concerns don't you see about that?

....and from the years of experience of my family of origin. (No not all blood, and thank heavens.)

 

[Mina]

I would add this as a cautionary tale...in addition to the things mentioned such as stalking and harassment, off-forum friendships may end up putting you in other kinds of difficult situations. Sorry it's kind of long.

Through the forum, I became very close friends with a fellow PTSD sufferer. About six months ago she began to go downhill, and asked for space. I thought she was suicidal, and said as much to her, but felt there was nothing I could do about it - no overt threats or anything to report, just my intuition and reading of this person. I respected her wishes for space, not knowing for months if she was dead or alive.

About six weeks ago, she contacted me after awakening in the hospital after a suicide attempt. I was thrilled to be talking to her again and that she was alive, but of course hurt for her, knowing how badly she must be hurting to try and take her own life.

We spoke every couple days until she got out of the hospital and then psych ward; our communication moved mostly to email after that. At first she seemed to have hope, but that seemed to dissipate. I can understand that just because you lived, doesn't mean the pain that drove you to attempt suicide has gone away. I debated calling the psych unit or the police in her area, as I believed she was going to try again, but didn't call.

Then her emails began to say things like, "I am pissed that I am still alive. I don't want to be here and can't believe I f***ed up again. Cancelled the therapist appointment, not going to take any meds, unplugged my phones, and I will try again. Logistics logistics and just need time to get my ducks all in a row again." And, "...I don't deserve friends. I don't deserve anyone. I have pushed out [3 other friends] this weekend, and now I guess it's your turn." When I tried to reply to that last one, she had cancelled her email account through her local internet service provider.

Time to make the call.

Difficult choice...never thought I would be in that sort of situation with a friend. But whether she killed herself or whether she hated me for calling on her, either way she's not my friend anymore, so I had nothing to lose. And I'm the one who has to look at myself in the mirror every day, and live with my choices.

I phoned the psych emergency line for the ward she'd initially been in after the last attempt, and said I thought she was suicidal and why. They had me email and verify some info, then phoned me back to say they were going to try to contact her. If they couldn't make phone contact, they would send the police over to forcibly bring her in for assessment. They know her history, they have her records, and they took this seriously.

I took some time to think through various scenarios - i.e., how I would respond to my friend should she call and say xyz, so that I would be prepared and not taken off-guard. Good thing I did.

A week later, my phone rang quite early. It was her, asking if I was the one who called and "got the police to haul her out of bed late at night". I said I'd phoned the unit, and they had decided to have her brought in for assessment. She said, "I just got out from a WEEK in there thanks to you." I asked her if she had needed to be there. She didn't really answer, but essentially told me I had no right to call on her. She claimed she had been "venting" and that I'd crossed a boundary by calling on her, that she couldn't trust me, and that as a fellow PTSD sufferer I should understand "venting" and whatnot.

I listened, then told her she had overstepped the friendship because she wasn't just venting, she was outright suicidal and expected me to do nothing and just be okay with it. She said, "Well then, I guess we both overstepped. I wish you a nice life," and hung up.

To have a very close friend send me suicidal emails, to cut off communication, to be put in the position of making a choice, and then angrily be told I had no right to make that choice... To be perfectly honest, if I wasn't so far along in my recovery from PTSD, this could have had a horrible impact on me and been a huge setback. As it was, it was hard on me. But I'm far enough recovered to know that her words and choices are hers, and don't necessarily reflect the reality of the situation, and I did the right thing and stand by it.

Anyone reading this...please be very careful with your off-forum friendships, and think ahead.

 

[KP the nut]

Anyone reading this...please be very careful with your off-forum friendships, and think ahead.

Mina, thank you for sharing. It took tremendous courage and strength to take the action you did.

 

[anthony]

If I could put the message into a big flashing warning sign, I would. I can't stress enough the amount of stalkers I have obtained from this forum over the years... and I mean full on cyber stalking, its just lucky I know enough to repel the issues, but I have had to stop using Skype, ICQ, MSN, etc... pretty much any form of instant message type communication. Its not their fault, they're ill, they have personality disorders, all sorts of complicated matters.

I just can't stress enough, the WARNING signs over these matters, especially for those with complex abuse who know their susceptible to being manipulated. Just don't put yourself into the situation to begin with, do yourself a favour and be kind to yourself until such time as you're at a better place in life to make defined decisions for you.

 

[KP the nut]

Nicolette and I organise a get together, and we do so in very public locations, because we don't know people and they don't know us, so the safest thing for everyone involved is to be in a very public, busy place.

I'm meeting with a member/s next week, we are meeting in a very very public place and then sitting in a cafe. This is for their protection as well as mine.

Just don't put yourself into the situation to begin with, do yourself a favour and be kind to yourself until such time as you're at a better place in life to make defined decisions for you.

I need to be cautious and aware not scared and reclusive.

All the warnings I gave my children when they were younger are coming back to me.

 

[jesse]

Why meet at all KP? From the well informed people here there are a lot of sick and dangerous people on this website so becareful.

 

[anthony]

Why meet at all KP? From the well informed people here there are a lot of sick and dangerous people on this website so be careful.

I think that is being a little harsh based on what is said. This forum is full of people with mental illness, mental illness that varies from, seeing and talking with a person you would not know otherwise had PTSD, to people with severe personality disorders. Again... you're taking something and being dramatic, instead of simply taking the context, being: precautions.

Members of this forum assume that they can share information with other members here, and that somehow their safety is just granted because how would anyone here be bad, manipulative or destructive to them? Well, experience has told us over the years, members who have obtained physical stalkers from this forum, members who have obtained cyber stalking from this forum, member who have been harrassed, members who have gone on a date with another from this forum, to suddenly find the member had severe personality disorder and the police had to get involved.

The rule is not like you are dramatising Jesse, which I perceive to be a sarcastic manner from statements made, but more a warning that a forum like this has more than lets say... a normal share of possible concerns when meeting people or giving out your personal contact details.

I don't particularly find your comments amusing... considering there are some good relationships that have formed through here, but there are also bad ones that have involved police.

I have a responsibility to atleast warn members of dangers when they are brought to my attention, because some members abuse extends to them being completely and easily manipulated by unscrupulous individuals.

This forum has had sociopaths, rapists and all sorts come across it, much of it we discover, but I would be naive to say there aren't people here who aren't who they say they are, even today. I know there are members here who I seriously even doubt have PTSD, yet claim they do. That in itself screams a mental health issue that can turn bad when a person has convinced themselves they have something they don't.

I can only share what is given to me and warn... I really don't appreciate the sarcasm about the situation. I read another post you made about leaving here and being supported by some folk from here during that time, which is excellent Jesse... and that is optimal, but that isn't always the case unfortunately.

 

[KP the nut]

Why meet at all KP?

I'll answer, I used to be outgoing and confident with a good social life. PTSD changed that, I became reclusive, slightly agrophobic, had anxiety attacks about going anywhere different, actually and familiar. I wouldn't drive, and public transport was out of the question. I also have huge self esteem issues.

I saw that Anthony and Nicolette had arranged to meet others for coffee. I thought that would be a good goal to set myself. However with the best intention it is not feasible to travel to Melbourne for coffee. I haven't forced anyone into meeting me, I placed an event and others responded. Doing this, for me pushes me out of my comfort zone. It involves driving and a train journey into a city. It involves being around a lot of people. It will not be easy but I'm doing it.

I'm aware of the dangers this MIGHT incur, however, if I never pushed myself to do anything, I may as well give up. Who knows the people I meet may be a new good friend or we my dislike one another and never meet again. Most probably it will be middle ground and it will be nice just to chat and we may or may not do it again. I refuse to live my life looking for the worst scenario and I feel sorry for those who feel like that. To me, the benefit outweighs the negatives.

So, can I bat that one back at you Jesse - why not meet?

I should also add that last year I would not have had the courage to reply to you or organise an event. This forum has helped me achieve that.

 

[anthony]

Well done KP.

 

[jesse]

I'm sorry Anthony I wasn't being sarcastic. I understand what you are saying now though and thanks for explaining things better.

 

[Deaf Global Nomad]

Thank you very much for the food for thought!