Relationship With Beloved Child Who Condones Abuser

[Gloria]

This has been bothering me for a very long time and have discussed with many others who share the same problem. My ex-husband was not a nice man to be extremely polite. I married him immediately after my dear brother committed suicide in front of my then eight-year old son - very traumatic. This man (my ex) promised to be a good father to my son, wanted to marry me and I believed him. But soon after we were married, my ex started beating my son, myself and our dog. I became pregnant with another baby and didn't even want to tell him about. I wanted to run away but couldn't. I had my youngest son and hoped for the best but my husband became more and more abusive. My ex did adopt my oldest son but decided when we got divorced that that he didn't give a sh** about him. My ex said that the only way that my oldest son would be his son is if I came back to him. My ex never even visited his own child. My ex refused to pay child support. My oldest son changed because he was very traumatized again. After my brother's suicide, I took him for counseling and he was very bright and popular and did well in school and was very close to me but when my ex beat him and verbally abused him, he changed and he's never gotten over it. Now that I'm reading a book called Abondonment Survivors and I think I understand. He was abandoned by his natural father. He was abandoned by my brother who was his father image for 8 years (when he committed suicide) Then he was abandoned once again by the man that adopted him.

To top everything off, my ex came over when we were going through our divorce and sodomized and brutally raped me - but I couldn't press charges because back then, you could charge your husband with rape and we legally married. My youngest son knows this and says it's all in the past and that he lives in the present. I want to smack him.

I did get married to the nicest and kindest man in the world and he was a wonderful father to my boys and I was married for many years. However, my ex continued to make our live's miserable. My new husband refused to fight so my ex would come over and beat him up and but my husband wouldn't fight back. Why? Because he loved my sons so much and said that if he ever did hit him (my ex) back he might kill their father.

My youngest son had asthma and the doctors would insist that I pay the doctor's bills because my ex wouldn't give me an insurance card. Well, I would give him the bills and the insurance would pay and the ass was thrilled. He was making money every time my son got sick.He kept the money and never paid me back. I did finally take him to court and he owed about $15,000 but he hid assets so I settled for a couple thousand and he hid income so I never got money from his business and only got a tiny amount of child support.

Okay, fast forward. My sons are grown. My youngest son acts and talks as abusively as his father because he sees him frequently. I found out only recently that he was on Facebook and and all his dead beat cousins that are ex-cons. But I sent him an invite to be my friend two years ago and he refused because he said he was ashamed of me!!!

I am the one with the masters. I am the one that sacrificed for him. His father refused to help out with his college tuition because he told his son that he took after him (not his smart mother) and that he would never graduate from college. My son graduated with 3.9 average and I paid every dime of his tuition so he wouldn't have any student loans.

Now, okay I am in so much pain. For years, I never took care of my teeth. My sons however, got braces and had regular care but I always them to have what I didn't have. Now I'm paying and they are going to have to pull out all my teeth. :rolleyes: I was so poor when I was the bread winner (my ex didn't work but took care of the kids) that I used to pull my own teeth if they hurt too much. I am much more mature now and will go to a dentist! LOL!:D

But the thing is that my son is getting married and is going to have grandchildren and I can't do this. I love my son but I hate him very, very much for having a relationship with his father after I told him and he saw everything that his father has done to make my life miserable.

After all this, I am going to the therapist today. Almost all my friends' children will not have anything to do with the abusive fathers our of loyalty to their mother. But my son makes me the bad guy and my son is getting more and more verbally abusive to me. I hate him when I see the sneer and the rolling eyes and the demeaning way that he talks to me. I will not tolerate it. I am not the only one. His "learned" treatment of women has already affected many of his relationships with women and he will end up with the same type of woman that his father did - the woman that will tolerate any behavior from her husband.

It's selfish. But I want to start a new life. I don't want the bastard that I divorced in my life now and if my son puts this man ahead of me with the wedding, etc. I don't want anything to do with it. My son might even name my grandson "Vincent". That would take the cake. I don't have contact with my abusive biological family. I have a good life but to feel so betrayed by my son. Especially now, when I realize that I sacrificed so much, relationships, fun, vacations, life for my son and it's just a slap in the face. My ex always drove a nice car, had nice clothes and then he would take my son to DisneyLand. I worked two jobs just to give him private schools and good food. I'm so angry.

I know other people have the same problem. Who doesn't? It's so complicated with re-marriages and our abusive spouses. I know some women who won't make their children choose. But my son is 28 years old now and I want him to make concessions.

I rambled on and on because I'm so upset but I told my son to be at the therapist today at noon and we had to talk about this. I am seriously considering disowning my son if he doesn't make some concessions to me. I know life isn't fair but I raised my son to be fair and if he wants to be like his father, well I divorced his father and I will divorce my son.

 

[The Albatross]

Gloria, I'm sure it pains my mother to see or hear mannerisms from both my brother and I... I don't like it when I hear my dad's voice come out of my mouth myself. I'm glad that he's going to therapy with you today, and hope he'll be willing to continue to work through this with you.

I wanted, for a long time to go to joint therapy with my own mother, but she (after a few false agreements) refused. We have an uneasy truce. I hope it goes well with you.

 

[Gloria]

I went to t herapy and it boiled down to this. I was such a good mother that I never told my son what a jerk his father was and then when I did, he didn't believe me. The problem is that I could never tell off his father or talk back to him because if I did anything to anger him, he would take it out on my son.

That's why I have written nasty notes in response to refusals to pay for tuition, etc. but then he takes it out on my son - really bad.

We talked about his marriage, children and any future involvement. I feel very strongly that a man that raped me and did so much harm to my other son as well as this son should not be part of my life. So if he wants a wedding or children to come in contact with this toxic man, then I can't continue to be part of his life.

We talked about me writing my ex a scathing letter (finally) and telling him off just once but my son said that it would ruin his life. Well, this man already did major damage to my life so it's his choice. If my ex chooses to take out his anger on my son if I tell him off and my son is angry at me for telling him off, I'm sick of this. I want to tell him off once and for all and never have anything to do with him. For goodness sake, the family all have been in prison and are addicts. If my son chooses to have this family instead of me, then he must not think much of me (and he'll be a lousy parent). I refuse to watch my future grandchildren learn that prison, killing, rape, stealing, etc. is okay. My son is the one who will be the parent and he needs to make healthy choices.

My therapist never saw me scream and get angry like I did today. All the pent up anger came out because I'm always trying to be "the good one".

 

[AngelaMarie]

Gloria,
I saw this post and it really hit home with me in my own way. My oldest sons I raised alone. They were 2 and 1 when I started doing it alone and I was 19. Their father was too busy drinking, getting arrested, not working, etc.

About 5 years ago we quit talking after I had my breakdown. Not too long ago they contacted me again. Imagine how hurt I was when I saw that while they were ignoring me they were in contact with the father they never knew when they were growing up. They are in contact with his whole drunk disgusting family. It hurts alot! I went in to a very deep depression because of it. I gave up years of my life for them and it felt like it meant nothing. Just try to remember (as I have to) that you did your best.

I just want to wish you the best, Gloria. Also to give you a (((hug))). I really hope this works out for you and your son. It is so, so hard. I will be thinking of you.

 

[Gloria]

Thank you AngelMarie,

I don't know how many mothers (and my former husband) who feel devastated and feel that they sacrificed everything for a child who then identifies with an abusive addict and it hurts so bad. You know my son does this thing with rolling his eyes and snearing and putting me down. Ironically, my son has always been the "perfect" son. I sent him to Christian schools. He does a lot of volunteer work because that is what our "family" did when he was growing up. In everyone's eyes (including mine) he is a terrific and caring person. That is why my therapist was so shocked yesterday. For the first time since she has seen me in three years, I went ballistic in the session with my son and screamed and pounded and threatened. Everybody was terrified! It finally came out! My son's rolling eyes brought up so much hatred and bad memories.

Then the thing that broke my heart was seeing my disabled son on crutches (disabled army vet) and I asked him once again if the man that adopted him beat him and he started to cry and said anytime you weren't home. I screamed at my younger son because I told him and you betray your mother and brother to call this maggot your father!!!

We see the therapist on Monday again. There is such sadness in this house because my sons and I are very close and love each other very much but this one son's relationship with his father caused major problems when he graduated from college. I refused to go to the ceremony if my ex was there. We have have been arguing about this for four years now because my son says he can't get married or have kids without starting WWIII. Well, my answer to my son was that I could solve that by not being his mother any more. That makes him sad and he says it's not fair that I am putting him in a position to choose and that I am ruining his life.

I think that if this man (my son) condones the man that raped his mother, beat and emotionally destroyed his brother and beat his step-father who loved him very much, then I don't want him as my son. If he benefits from all the college and cars and cultural experiences and religion and love that i gave him, I've done my job. If he chooses to call this man his father, I am not his mother. Because his father is my deceased husband who fed him and clothed him, took him to the ER three times a week when he had asthma and spent every evening helping with homework, playing ball with him. Paul was the best father in the world and if he calls this dirtbag his father, then he is no son of mine.

I do want to beat the crap out of my ex because I found out how often he beat my oldest son yesterday and how severely. I want to beat him up like he beat up my little boy.

So much anger!!! My therapists would always say "Doesn't that make you angry?" and would get upset with me because I never got angry when I talked about my abuse. Well, I'm really angry now. Actually, my therapist was laughing when we said good-bye because she thought it was really cool that I got angry? I sure am!!:p

I know too many mothers that had the same thing happen. But knowing psychology, I know that a child will do anything to please the parent who abuses or abandons him because it is a primal instinct to seek out the approval of a parent. Some of this is so deeply ingrained in our genetic makeup that it's not really the child's fault.

Hugs and lots of prayers for everyone that goes through this!!!
Gloria

 

[mamachick]

Dear Gloria,
I am so sorry you are going through this and can understand your anger. My oldest daughter has been trying to please her father for ever-she is 34, bi-polar, and been in a lot of trouble over the years. While in her teens,, her father encouraged her bad behavior, then when she had several babies and was involved in crime, he dropped contact with her. Only in the past year has her father been contacting and visiting her. He is dying from pleural fibrosis? and on oxygen all the time and will not make it a year. Girls take on the father personality too. I think it is who they most identify with.

When you described giving children braces and needing dental care, reminds me of similiar things I have done. With 2 more daughters from my second marraige, and once again a single parent, I went through grad school with no computer and only about half the required books, barely affording tuition. Meanwhile, taking care of everything else, making sure kids do travel soccer and are participating in their other activities, braces and beautiful teeth, same home, cars, college etc. Their father was not abusive, just a workaholic and inept at anything that does not include the remote control, recliner, and sports.

Sometimes it feels like my kids all have blinders on. Do they see us able to just deal with anything or what?

 

[AngelaMarie]

Gloria,
I hope your therapy session goes well on Monday. I am thinking of you.

 

[Abrasky]

I have a sister like this. (We had a 10 year age difference). I use to take care of her when my mum went out, helped raise her. Her father although living in the same house had nothing to do with her so abandoned her. He just lived there and he was violent.

At 9 years old, she was the most goergeous loving child, she thought I was wonderful and she was happy. Fast forward 15 years, and she is now behaving badly, although she works, she tries to emotionally kill me every time she sees me, just like her father did. She's not very nice, she's also very emotionally blackmailing like her mother in a very toxic way. Apparently her father has changed, but I am the evil one, because I won't let him back into my life and forgive. He's her wonderful dad and I should get over the sexual abuse from him.

The best thing I did was cutting her out of my life. I was not strong enough to keeping coping the abuse. I don't blame her though, I think she has witnessed violence from him and her mother. It's a pretty sad road though when you put lots of goodness into someone and they aren't strong enough to overcome the trauma's thrown at them or at least fight them. SHe wasn't as strong, that's all.

It is really hard to overcome programming though, if it is instilled with violence. If he beat you son, I'm sure he probably beat your younger son.

Find things other than your children to make you strong with your values. That is what I have learned. That way you don't have to rely on them to grow your strong centre. And then whether they dissapoint or succeed you can share their journey if you are strong enough to.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

My heart goes out to you. Rarely do I read a post and have such a feeling of sadness. I am not a parent myself, but I understand where you're coming from.

I have a "friend" who says the same thing as your youngest, that he lives in the present. He's gone thru trauma, too. What I realized is that this is his form of denial. He simply does not want to deal with the past because it's too painful. I see him as weak because it is only the strong who have the courage to triumph over the past. Anyway, your son is living in denial about his father. I completely understand why you want no part of his life in light of the fact that he's unable to accept the truth.

 

[Nicolette]

Ok I am going to dare to step outside of the 'empathy zone' into 'reality' having been that child who was beaten by her step father and also the only responsible parent who did most of everything herself.

Gloria I could write a novel and give you lots of examples but instead will share a few words with you.

IMHO your son is not your Ex even if he has similar traits which you dislike. That being said you did the very best you could but now your son is a grown man and he will make his own decisions. It may take him time to see things from your point of view but in the meantime I read anger and how it is eating you up. Please don't let it destroy you. If your son ends up like his father you cannot change him now he is grown. He may even do it just to displease you as I am guessing it provokes a really strong reaction from you - some people do that on purpose just to rebel.

If you want your children in your life then you have to let go of the past as it can no longer be undone. It is easy to sit on the outside and judge but my point here is you did what YOU thought was best at the time and how things turned our are now the way they are and cannot be changed.

Free yourself from your responsibility for a grown man; free yourself from your past; invest your therapy sessions in finding peace and happiness within yourself as only then will you be able to see clearly.

I do not wish to offend or upset you but all I read is resentment, anger and hatred. I think the healthy option now is to remove these things from your life and the rest will then fall into place.

Good luck and be good to yourself FIRST.

PS...please don't try and do what my mother did...punish me for her feelings and suffering. You need to remember you are the parent and your children are your children. It is your role to be there for them and not the other way around. If your son feels no animosity towards his father you probably did too good a job of hiding the truth but I know you did it to protect him.

I don't know how many mothers (and my former husband) who feel devastated and feel that they sacrificed everything for a child who then identifies with an abusive addict and it hurts so bad...... Well, my answer to my son was that I could solve that by not being his mother any more. That makes him sad and he says it's not fair that I am putting him in a position to choose and that I am ruining his life.

You are guilt tripping your own son Gloria and you are trying to make him choose. I'm sorry but that is what I read. You are projecting your hurt and expecting your son to feel the same. I understand the devastation you feel but you made the choices you made while your children were growing up and that has nothing to do with the innocent children.

You may not like his father and choose to have nothing to do with him however he is still your son's father and that is for them to work out. The worst thing you can do to your child is make them choose between parents as I have seen it first hand and the person who thinks they deserve the loyalty the most usually ends up in an undesirable position.

My son's father is hopeless and my son knows it - but he knows it from working it out himself. I am guilty of ocassionally saying "you are like your father" in anger but his father did the damage himself. My son chooses to keep in touch with his dad out of sense of pity if anything as he sees his dad all alone and also because he is his dad and his eyes that means something. I have no right to take that away from him despite all that I had to go through to raise our son. I know I am the better person and I got our son to where he is today but his dad will always be his dad - bad or good. That's just the way it is.

 

[ms spock]

But my son makes me the bad guy and my son is getting more and more verbally abusive to me. I hate him when I see the sneer and the rolling eyes and the demeaning way that he talks to me. I will not tolerate it.

You are tolerating though - because he is still there sneering and rolling his eyes and speaking to you in an inappropriate manner.

I am not the only one. His "learned" treatment of women has already affected many of his relationships with women and he will end up with the same type of woman that his father did - the woman that will tolerate any behavior from her husband.

In my completely non expert opinion I think cutting him off is the best thing to do. Tough love is in order here.

Your son has witnessed two types of masculinity - abuser or abused. He has chosen to take on the abuser persona.

It's selfish. But I want to start a new life.

No it is not selfish at all. It is called self preservation! You don't want
to enable these types of abusive behaviours. You ex husband got
away with raping you and sodomizing you because of the rape and
marriage laws at that time. Your ex got away with years of physical
abuse because the police wouldn't come at those times?
Your son won't get away with similar types of behaviours.
He is on a journey to prison already.

I don't have contact with my abusive biological family.

That is a great achievement, not to be taken lightly.

But my son is 28 years old now and I want him to make concessions.

No one expects someone to have a dinner with a complete stranger
who raped and sodomized them or someone that beat them and inflicted
some type of grievous bodily harm. So what is this thing of expecting
us to have dinner with someone we know who raped and sodomized us?
Or someone that beat us up viciously?

These are the complicit behaviours that allow all forms of abuse to go from
generation to generation.

If his father had called you a lot of nasty names that is one thing. But his father was physically and sexually violent towards you. Both illegal and unlawful behaviours.
It is not okay to condon overtly or tacitly those types of behaviours.

How much abuse is too much abuse. Will you have to look the other way whilst
your son (potentially 70% of violent men sexually abuse their children) whilst
your grandchildren are abused?

When does it end?

It is different if it is just a bad divorce, then no, you don't make the children choose.
If illegal physical, sexual abuse and violence takes place then yes there are hard decisions to be made.

I am seriously considering disowning my son if he doesn't make some concessions to me... if he wants to be like his father, well I divorced his father and I will divorce my son.

Divorce them both. Your son has no reason to change - everyone is putting up with his behaviours. Everyone is reiniforcing and enabling his anti social behaviours.
His father might have missed out on prision for his sexual and physical violence
but it is unlikely that your son will.

If you divorce him with tough love at least he has a chance to make a choice. It reads
to me that you will lose your son either way. You sacrifice your self and you put
yourself in to a potentiallly quite dangerous situation at a wedding or your lose your son. Either way, no matter which ways the cards fall you are in for heaps of grief.

It is very painful when other people are shown loyalty and you have been given none.

This is of course, my own opinions and attempts to assist and be supportative, please
take what is useful and think "Well that ms spock certainly gives it ago, even if she off or on the track."

ms spock

 

[ms spock]

then he must not think much of me

I think you have it totally wrong. You loved your son and cared for him. But you were abused by his father. You were raped. You were beaten. Even when a new man came on the scene his father was able to beat him up as well. He is not choosing not to be with you. He is choosing not to be a person who won't be abused: sexually, physically, emotionally or otherwise.

He has only had two choices modelled to him victim or abuser. He is scared of his father and is probably not in an adult state when he is with his father. He is trying to be good for his daddy so the abuse stops.
If he is good for his daddy, I am sure that there is child thinking in there that you will never be hurt again. Your son is acting out his childhood stuff.

Watching a parent being abused, it warps you as a child. It is particularly hard for male children when it is male violence to female victim. Studies have shown they have the most difficulty in finding an male adult identity.

ms spock

Dear Gloria,

You have cut off from your biologically abusive family. I would suggest that working on your family of origin issues will assist you and perhaps shed some light on your current situation.

Best Wishes,
ms spock