That would be the part I disagree with, how is penalizing someone for not being able to afford health insurance going to help anyone? What, then they can not be able to afford medical treatment and get penalized further on top of that. I think it would be better to get rid of the whole health insurance thing and have tax funded universal healthcare.
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News What Do We Really Know About Obamacare?
- Thread starter Changing4Best
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That would be the part I disagree with, how is penalizing someone for not being able to afford health insurance going to help anyone? What, then they can not be able to afford medical treatment and get penalized further on top of that. I think it would be better to get rid of the whole health insurance thing and have tax funded universal healthcare.
intothelight
Sponsor
There are a lot of taxes that no one is really talking about. People with Health Savings Accounts (HSA's ) will not longer be allowed to use pre-tax dollars for over the counter medication. HSA's can only be used for prescription medication (excluding insulin).
The medicare tax will double for for amount withheld for employees and for the self-employed. At the same time, the income threshold subject to the tax is increasing.
The percentage of gross income compared to medical expenses is increasing from 7.5% to 10%, before a family can take a deduction for medical expenses. Additionally, Flexible Spending Accounts will be capped at $2,500 which will have a huge impact on families with special needs children. Also, in the future Comprehensive Health Insurance Plans will be subject to an excise tax.
Not sure how all of these things will impact overall, it is just alarming that the tax code got even more complex and confusing. Yes, everyone deserves affordable health insurance, but there doesn't seem to be a market out there right now for it. Also, in my personal opinion it is the lower and middle income families that will bare the brunt of the tax burden as will small business.
Large businesses are already cutting hours so that more staff are part-time. People should check out the company's that are exempted from the changes under this plan. There are a lot of large employers, unions and municipalities.
Just an example of our government in operation. We used to have a three branch government and now it is four: Executive, Legislation, Judicial and special interest. Who protects our interests?
The medicare tax will double for for amount withheld for employees and for the self-employed. At the same time, the income threshold subject to the tax is increasing.
The percentage of gross income compared to medical expenses is increasing from 7.5% to 10%, before a family can take a deduction for medical expenses. Additionally, Flexible Spending Accounts will be capped at $2,500 which will have a huge impact on families with special needs children. Also, in the future Comprehensive Health Insurance Plans will be subject to an excise tax.
Not sure how all of these things will impact overall, it is just alarming that the tax code got even more complex and confusing. Yes, everyone deserves affordable health insurance, but there doesn't seem to be a market out there right now for it. Also, in my personal opinion it is the lower and middle income families that will bare the brunt of the tax burden as will small business.
Large businesses are already cutting hours so that more staff are part-time. People should check out the company's that are exempted from the changes under this plan. There are a lot of large employers, unions and municipalities.
Just an example of our government in operation. We used to have a three branch government and now it is four: Executive, Legislation, Judicial and special interest. Who protects our interests?
BloomInWinter
VIP Member
The recent IRS ruling has really thrown a huge cost increase in costs to the poor and middle class, for sure. It is already being challenged in court and we hope it'll be struck down.
People who drive must have insurance because when they get hurt and/or hurt others in an accident, the rest of us get stuck paying their bill. So the ones who refuse to pay for insurance will still get emergency medical care, but it's not fair to everyone else who does take the responsibility on of paying for insurance.
The penalty for not buying into some plan will likely be approximately 1 - 3.00 USD per day, far less than what people who have insurance are already paying. Nobody at the federal poverty level will have to pay any. Also, both medicaid and medicare are being expanded to cover a lot more people.
People without medical care still end up in our emergency rooms, only more ill and costing the taxpayers far more because we're footing the tab for the much more expensive ER care. It's bankrupting our hospitals. Doctors who treat medicaid patients only get reimbursed 88 cents on the dollar, so most practices will only see a certain amout since they pay for it.
The insurance mandate assures a large pool paying in so coverage can be given. It may seem unfair, but it's going to be far less of a tax penalty than having one bad illness or emergency and going bankrupt. It's economic protection for families and the consumer, and will keep hospitals open.
There's nothing fair about our free market system now. Only those who can pay get care, unless it's expensive care via the ER that those who are working pay for. There's plenty if unfairness going around but at least most will be able to get primary, preventative care, and no more heart attack patients would go bankrupt within two years, unlike what happens now.
Over 1/2 of all bankruptsies are medical bankruptsies. The taxpayers pick up the tab for those, and it's killing our economy. It must be addressed. Nobody should go bankrupt because they got sick.
People who drive must have insurance because when they get hurt and/or hurt others in an accident, the rest of us get stuck paying their bill. So the ones who refuse to pay for insurance will still get emergency medical care, but it's not fair to everyone else who does take the responsibility on of paying for insurance.
The penalty for not buying into some plan will likely be approximately 1 - 3.00 USD per day, far less than what people who have insurance are already paying. Nobody at the federal poverty level will have to pay any. Also, both medicaid and medicare are being expanded to cover a lot more people.
People without medical care still end up in our emergency rooms, only more ill and costing the taxpayers far more because we're footing the tab for the much more expensive ER care. It's bankrupting our hospitals. Doctors who treat medicaid patients only get reimbursed 88 cents on the dollar, so most practices will only see a certain amout since they pay for it.
The insurance mandate assures a large pool paying in so coverage can be given. It may seem unfair, but it's going to be far less of a tax penalty than having one bad illness or emergency and going bankrupt. It's economic protection for families and the consumer, and will keep hospitals open.
There's nothing fair about our free market system now. Only those who can pay get care, unless it's expensive care via the ER that those who are working pay for. There's plenty if unfairness going around but at least most will be able to get primary, preventative care, and no more heart attack patients would go bankrupt within two years, unlike what happens now.
Over 1/2 of all bankruptsies are medical bankruptsies. The taxpayers pick up the tab for those, and it's killing our economy. It must be addressed. Nobody should go bankrupt because they got sick.
- Thread starter
- #16
Changing4Best
VIP Member
In 1997, my husband had a massive stroke. It changed our lives completely. Eventually we lost everything, home, business, all personal belongings, etc. He ended up in a nusing home and I homeless for 3 years. He died in 2005.
It took me 12 years to get out of that situation and into the poor but better than homeless condition I'm in now, thank God. At least I have a roof over my head, food to eat and such. But I have nothing with which to pay for these 10 cavities I have.
It took me 12 years to get out of that situation and into the poor but better than homeless condition I'm in now, thank God. At least I have a roof over my head, food to eat and such. But I have nothing with which to pay for these 10 cavities I have.
intothelight
Sponsor
I haven't had time to check the statistics, but I really don't doubt it. Looking at drowning in medical debt myself and I have insurance.
This was all part of the original legislation. In my personal opinion, when it becomes part of tax code, it is rarely ever changed.
Totally agree as long as it is business as usual. But there are options that could create markets or a pool for those that are the working poor or uninsurable. Prior to any legislation I saw it here at a local county hospital. Individuals who use the hospital and clinics, that did not have insurance or any other coverage, paid a monthly fee based on a sliding fee scale. Not only did the hospital and its clinics stop losing money, but the quality of care went up and those individuals that were "members" had much less emergency room visits as they now had access to preventative care and could use clinics to address medical issues that were not emergencies.
So the IRS collects a penalty for those that are uninsured. Where is that money going to go? I doubt that it is going back to the medical facilities that bear the brunt of the financial cost of providing services.
- Thread starter
- #18
Changing4Best
VIP Member
I have a feeling that as the Obamacare goes into effect, there will have to be changes to it to accomodate the holes it has in it now. These will take time to be put into effect, there will be suffering until they are, but in time, God willing, it should all work out.
I suppose what is being created now is the jumpstart that we need. I just pray that as time goes by, things can be worked out!
I suppose what is being created now is the jumpstart that we need. I just pray that as time goes by, things can be worked out!
Eleanor
Diamond Member
The whole point of the Health Care Reform is to make the current GAPING holes much much smaller.
When Massachusetts did this (for the commonwealth alone) the biggest problem turned out to be a doctor shortage. With so many new people in the system, and dealing with the built up backlog of their problems things got very bogged down for a little less than two years. The system there seems to be working fairly well.
It is worth remembering that most people who "read" things (especially laws) are not very good readers. And reading laws, especially complex ones that alter existing complex systems, is particularly difficult. I teach this sort of thing, and I have very bright and informed students, and I can tell you that they suck at reading even comparatively simple constitutions and laws when they start - and not for lack of effort! It takes a fair amount of guided practice at this kind of thing to get any good at it at all.
I don't know the precise mechanism of how the money gets from the IRS back into the health system but the Whole Point of the coverage mandate is to make sure everyone is paying into the system - so there are no "free riders." What happens now when people are uninsured and can't pay for care they receive is that the cost just gets spread out over the charges that other DO pay. The money has to come from somewhere. The hope (and reasonable expectation) is that costs for insurance for individuals will come down significantly once the huge chunk of the population that doesn't pay for insurance starts contributing. In CA now, they are working on setting up the "health care exchange" where individuals will be able to buy insurance (a standard comprehensive package) independent of their employer. The best estimate is that a family of four will be able to buy coverage for about $100 a month - which is not nothing, but it is way better than what you could buy three years ago (COBRA coverage for my daughter alone ran 700 a month! EEK!!!) AND people will get protected from being dropped from their insurance when they get sick.
It is not perfect - but it is IMHO a damn sight better than what we had before. I understand that people get scared of "the government" but really, it is pretty important to do reality testing even in political life, and this set of reforms is a good deal. Not perfect. But a major improvement.
When Massachusetts did this (for the commonwealth alone) the biggest problem turned out to be a doctor shortage. With so many new people in the system, and dealing with the built up backlog of their problems things got very bogged down for a little less than two years. The system there seems to be working fairly well.
It is worth remembering that most people who "read" things (especially laws) are not very good readers. And reading laws, especially complex ones that alter existing complex systems, is particularly difficult. I teach this sort of thing, and I have very bright and informed students, and I can tell you that they suck at reading even comparatively simple constitutions and laws when they start - and not for lack of effort! It takes a fair amount of guided practice at this kind of thing to get any good at it at all.
I don't know the precise mechanism of how the money gets from the IRS back into the health system but the Whole Point of the coverage mandate is to make sure everyone is paying into the system - so there are no "free riders." What happens now when people are uninsured and can't pay for care they receive is that the cost just gets spread out over the charges that other DO pay. The money has to come from somewhere. The hope (and reasonable expectation) is that costs for insurance for individuals will come down significantly once the huge chunk of the population that doesn't pay for insurance starts contributing. In CA now, they are working on setting up the "health care exchange" where individuals will be able to buy insurance (a standard comprehensive package) independent of their employer. The best estimate is that a family of four will be able to buy coverage for about $100 a month - which is not nothing, but it is way better than what you could buy three years ago (COBRA coverage for my daughter alone ran 700 a month! EEK!!!) AND people will get protected from being dropped from their insurance when they get sick.
It is not perfect - but it is IMHO a damn sight better than what we had before. I understand that people get scared of "the government" but really, it is pretty important to do reality testing even in political life, and this set of reforms is a good deal. Not perfect. But a major improvement.
- Thread starter
- #20
Changing4Best
VIP Member
Will this also be guarenteed for Medicare patients, like me!
But what about people who cannot afford to pay into the system due to having no income? For instance, I am waiting on SSI and hopefully medicaid which I hope this healthcare reform doesn't negatively effect, but if that doesn't work out I don't exactly have funds to pay for insurance, or a fine, I already have college loans I cannot hope to pay back. It seems this is a good deal for employed people with income, maybe the middle class but not so sure that is the case for people in my situation.
Eleanor
Diamond Member
If you don't make enough to file an income tax return you will be exempt from the penalty. Also, there is provision for exemption for people with hardships (I'm not aware that those regs have come out yet.) If you are eligible for SSI and medicaid I'm pretty sure you will be exempt.
Source: http://www.factcheck.org/2012/06/how-much-is-the-obamacare-tax/
Source: http://www.factcheck.org/2012/06/how-much-is-the-obamacare-tax/
- Thread starter
- #23
Changing4Best
VIP Member
I don't make enough to file income taxes, thank God! (For once ;)).
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