Fear Of Being "in Trouble"

[shell]

I have noticed that when we talk on the phone, I tend to pace, or I sit down on the floor automatically. I wonder if it would help if I asked if we could sit in the floor in her office. She doesn't know I sit on the floor when we talk on the phone, but she has offered that I could sit on the pile of pillows in her office or in other chairs or anywhere... I so want to feel safer with her. I'd do almost anything.

I know exactly how you feel, I always felt like a child at first, being seen and being visible feels extremely unsafe, I used to ask my first trauma T not to look at me if I was talking about something that made me feel threatened, it helped.

I always wanted to sit on the floor behind the chair so I could hide and talk, but I never got the courage to ask. If your T has offered, do what feels comfortable you, but I guess if it helps if you're visible.

 

[Hashi]

I like @arfie's suggestion. I would also recommend trying it out experientially, perhaps with neutral or even silly things like you and your therapist did with saying no.

Something my therapist did once was an empty chair technique to help me separate my past self from my present self. It was experiential rather than trying to understand something cognitively. Actually sitting in the "present" chair and experiencing in a sensory way that I wasn't in the "past" chair had a big impact. I don't mean that I sat in the present chair for the whole session, it was just an exercise to help me take in the idea, which it did.

Do you ever do anything at the same time as talking, like colouring or playing with lego? This can be really helpful for soothing and staying grounded. I used to fold the tissues into little swans and things while I talked.

I'm also wondering what you and your therapist would think of doing more sessions over the phone instead of face to face.

 

[Pencil]

@Justmehere: even before I start I'm going to ask you to forgive me for hijacking your thread.

Being 'in trouble' is a HUGE issue for me, so HUGE that I've never spoken about it on this forum because I feared getting the usual responses: Be clear about your boundaries, etc etc.

First of all I FEAR setting boundaries. Boundaries are targets for attack. Boundaries mean being punished, somehow 'justifiably'. Saying NO means inviting annihilation. Refusing to do something means being suicidal. Doing anything other than what someone wants me to do means somebody will be angry, and I will not survive anger.

Total hogwash, I KNOW, but emotionally I CAN NOT move past it.

And so I spent March in a crazy situation. I rented an apartment from a woman who is a real estate agent and who has her offices at her house. So I got roped in to help with a few small things. This snowballed into a FULL TIME JOB - even though, as a freelancer, I had my work to do. But I could not say no, as I feared her anger. WTF??? So I 'worked for her' full time. WTF??? She got me working a full day on a Saturday, while my 8 yo watched tv all day, because I did not have the guts to say: 'No.' Then, she asked me to look for alternative accommodation for the first two weeks in April as her in-laws were coming for a visit and she needed to put them up in my apartment. I did not have the guts to say 'No.' All her actions violated various labour and rental laws, and still I was too 'afraid' to say a simple no. And I was really annoying my freelance client - and his annoyance is perfectly logical, justifiable and sane. But he was far away, while she was physically present. So I ignored my client's justifiable anger, and caved into her irrational nonsense. My sane mind tells me: 'So what if she gets angry?? Let her get angry, the mad cow". And yet, when she demanded, I jumped.

In the end I did not receive ANY payment for a full month's work, and I moved, happy to have 'escaped'. And now I'm broke, and my client is annoyed, and I'm dealing with a mess.

And how do I explain to any reasonable adult that I did what I did because I was too scared to refuse to give in to her?

Strangely, I can stand my ground in a full frontal attack. But not a demand. WTF??? I can say: 'f*ck off you blah blah", but I can't say 'no'. I can fight like hell, once the fight is on, but I can't refuse while things are 'still friendly'. WTF??

Okay, sorry about that, but I just HAD to get it out - and this thread just gave me the opportunity.

 

[ghotiff]

I can be perfectly articulate, rational and calm writing about my trauma alone, put me in her office to feel any emotion and I crumble or dissociate.

Its so nice to know its not just me.

I like the idea of doing something small that would have been a problem in your past to 'prove' your T is safe. If it was me, I would be afraid of my T being mad, for me....someone saying that they wouldn't do x, y or z is not enough. Proving to yourself that she is safe when mad (I really mean provoked) is an interesting theory. I can just see myself trying to summon the courage to drop a cup of dry rice bubbles on the floor....

First of all I FEAR setting boundaries. Boundaries are targets for attack.

I so understand this thinking. I have this extreme fear that if I tell someone what hurts me (ie my boundary), then I have given them information on how to hurt me and they will hurt me all the more efficiently. This leads to me not let on when someone is hurting me. When this happens in relationships I always get called ice-queen.....how little they know the real me.

 

[Justmehere]

I'm typing a response from my phone - so I apologize in advance for any errors.

@Hope4Now
I have a really hard time asking for things from my therapist too. One time I called and she called me back, and I was crying, but told her "nevermind." I was too scared to accept the help she offered. She gently encouraged me to stay on the phone,

Geez, I think her saying "yes" is scar for me.

My therapist says my fidgeting is a sign of trying to shift anxiety and "unresolved trauma" stored in the body. She takes it as a good sign that my body is trying to regulate and heal. I am not so sure - therapy makes me nervous!

(P.s. No worries about asking about somatic work - I didn't think anything of it.)

@shell - I would so love to hide behind the sofa! It makes a lot of sense what you say about having her not look at you. I want to have the courage you did to ask her to not look at me.

@Hashi - the empty chair technique sounds interesting. I think I may ask her about doing that. She has been telling me that at some point we would do role playing... Hmm.

Doing something like coloring is so soothing to me. I once played with game pieces on another therapist office and it helped me talk. Thanks for the good ideas!

@Pencil - you didn't hijack the thread at all. I'm so thankful for what you posted!

Argh. My eye doctor just called my name. I will respond more soon.

 

[Chosen]

I definitely relate to this. I constantly feel like I'm in trouble with my T, and authority figures in general. I was raised in a cult, and I was constantly in trouble, so it's very hard to feel safe and like I'm okay. Thankfully I have amazing pastors who've helped me heal more on that front than just about anyone else. With them, even though I was utterly terrified, I'd ask them if they were upset about something I said or did, and one of them even swore about what had happened to me, and one of them told me if ANYONE in the church gave me grief for something, I should sent them to him and he'd straighten them out (he's the senior pastor). I haven't quite worked up the same kind of courage with my T, but I'm attempting on Thursday.

There have been times I felt strong enough to ask if I could sit on the floor, and I did, and then another time where I brought in objects to show him. So far I haven't paced, which might happen on Thursday since I need to pace when I talk, haha. Sorry, this post is totally random and all over the place.

 

[Justmehere]

First of all I FEAR setting boundaries. Boundaries are targets for attack. Boundaries mean being punished, somehow 'justifiably'. Saying NO means inviting annihilation.

What you wrote really struck me. For me, saying no is not as hard. It's not easy. But when I think of showing emotion, it feels like my very life will be in danger.

Total hogwash, I KNOW, but emotionally I CAN NOT move past it.

It's so tough to know it, but to still be stuck! It's like a prison for me. I know it intellectually is safe, but not emotionally, physically. My experience during trauma has taught me otherwise.

Im so sorry for what happened in your crazy living situation. (She sounds awful and terribly insensitive for what it is worth.) I'm glad you got out of there. I can't believe you didn't get any payment. Argh,

I have such a fear of showing emotion, but I never fully stuff it either. Whenever someone shows they notice, I make fabric efforts to please them, to appease them, to do anything I can to not crate any stir... so that they can't hurt me for showing emotion. It tends to lead to havoc in my own life. This is especially pronounced for me with anyone that had any level of power or authority - even landlords.

Just last week my landlord said I looked sad. She also needed me to fill out a form for my dog. I literally wouldn't stay in my apartment with my dog, because I got so terrified I would be in trouble. I stayed with a friend until I got the form completed (it needed vaccine records). My landlady looked at me like I was crazy. I felt like I was trying to make sure she knew I would follow all rules and she was like um, you can stay there with your dog just fine... I'm still anxious as I write about it. All I think is something like, "yes, but You know I'm sad and thus you could get mad and hurt me now." It's not cognitive logical fear but somehow, it's what I fear.

When I finally get so cornered I'm in fight or flight mode, I don't care what people think about my showing emotions. I can show emotions then! But unless I am in that state of fight or flight... I think I'm in that "fawn mode" of needing to appease or please people at all costs.

Which ends up never being something I can really do. (Maybe I'm not so good at boundaries after all.)

@ghotiff - What you wrote reminded me how much this is really about a fear of vulnerability for me. So tough!

@Noah - I'm so glad you have the backup and support of such great pastoral staff! That's wonderful.

It really connects with my issues with authority. I feel more ok showing emotions to friends, mostly because they can't hurt me as much as someone in a position of more authority - vulnerability is such a bigger risk for me with authority figures. Thank you for your post. It made a lot of sense to me and helped me think through this more...[/user][/user]

 

[Justmehere]

Even when my therapist says we are ok, and that I'm not in trouble, it is like I'm always waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Part of me almost wants it to just happen. To be in trouble but not really. To pull down all the shoes and not always be waiting for things to fall apart.

As I think through this, it's like I almost wish she would hate me already... It's not a logical thought. It's so hard to sustain this place of tension, of trying to trust and risking that it will all coming crashing down right when I am most vulnerable.

At least then I would be in trouble on my own terms.

I'm such a control freak. I almost rather be in trouble on my terms than risk letting my therapist accept me only to get hurt later.

 

[Nothing]

Yes, I can definitely relate with this! It's a majour aspect I think that stops me getting anywhere with my T. I don't have any answers or strategies, but thought I'd comment just to say thank you so much for bringing this up because I always thought it was only me who had this.

 

[Justmehere]

@Nothing -:hug:

 

[ellienad]

@Justmehere Oh thank you thank you for bringing this up!! I can relate to so much of what you've said. I too have a HUGE fear of being "in trouble" and it wasn't until I begun therapy that I realized that fear was connected to past trauma. I can't offer any advice or words of wisdom but just sending you a virtual hug :hug:

 

[Justmehere]

I melted down this afternoon after a major trigger happened. Someone stupidly grabbed me. It was by a doctor. They didn't mean harm, just wanted to force me to stay to have a eye test but I had to go to a meeting and they were an hour behind so I got up to leave and the doctor grabbed my arm to have stay and i had to ask 3 times for them to let go. Small event but massive trigger.

I was so spacey afterwards I lost my keys and my train/buss pass. And my jacket. I went to a creek to ground and I left them beside me in a tearful moment.

I cans unglued after that. I feel so stupid I did but many other intrusive memories came up. I just wanted them to stop. At any cost. I texted my therapist in a very upset state. She automatically reassured me I'm not in trouble. I set upset texts and she encouraged me to keep texting keep grounding.

She called later on to check in on me. I told her I was so sorry. She said I wasn't in trouble with her. She said she also could understand if I didn't believe it but she wanted me to keep hearing her. "You are not in trouble with me."

I broke.

I told her, "I'm still sorry."

She said, "I know."

It was the best thing that she could say. I cried.

Behind all my fear is a mountain of grief and pain. I've lost so much, I've fought so hard to heal, I've made so many mistakes. I'm so lost. I'm so scared. I am so scared she will give up and I'm scared she won't. I don't want to be hurt again.