The War in Iraq

[TDurden1937]

Okay . . . I'm sorry I even got this going.

My big mouth. Shut it down shut it down.

:clap:

 

[Lisa]

Okay, I don't understand much politically etc. and I certainly am not clued up on political affairs outside the UK. Can't even say I fully understand everything people are talking about here.

But why does politics always have to have such a competitive 'we're the best' undertone. I heard that mentality pretty clearly.

Each country has it's defence. That's what each country should do - defend their land, their people, their economy etc. And where issues arise that affect several countries, others may or may not join forces. Each country has a government doing it's best to survive: and yes there is corruption, there are wrongdoings, propaganda whatever. No country, no person, and nothing is perfect.

Don't see what competition has to do with anything.

I have very few views on politics, and those views are restricted to my country as that is what affects me as a Brit. I don't live in another country so I don't consider myself qualified to comment on another countries politics. Might be different if I was serving my country I guess, as no doubt other countries issues would affect my life. But I certainly see absolutely no point in tit for tat over this country, that country, this war, that war in a competitive sense.

Talk about the real political issues that are constructive, is my view. Riling people up by opinionated judgement and competitive mentality is just asking for trouble.

So I am a Brit. I disagree with some things, agree with others politically. I talk about what I do know, what I do live with politically... but I certainly don't profess to have the answers to the country's/world's problems. As for the Queen... bloody woman should give her money to people who need it. But, just my opinion, from what I have experienced and seen in poverty stricken areas.

What I DON'T like reading... is all this 'you brits this, you brits think that' blah blah BS. Excuse me... I have a mind. I have an opinion. Just because the government is doing something, doesn't mean I agree, or think anything. Wanna know what I think? Ask *me*, and I'll damn tell you what I think. But nobody has the right to dump me into a very large generalised statement that is nothing but stereotypical/judgemental assumptions.

I am Brit. And I'm proud of that. Anyone got something to dig about 'what us brits' are like... come see me and I'll put you straight on what *I* am like.

Dammit.

But hey, what do I know? Very little. Just my two scents.

PS. Now, I *did* eat Crabby CRAPcakes today... so this post is entirely unedited on my part LOL.

 

[Kathy]

Lisa, I quite agree, it is most unfair to be lumped into a category based upon which country you live in. Unfortunately it seems the USA, Canada, the UK and others have all been stereotyped here. Although there is some good discussion contained in this thread, members are upset. I have received several private complaints, and so I have locked this thread for the time being. Political discussion is fine however it must remain respectful. The thread may be opened again at a later time.

 

[anthony]

Doug, whilst this is a valid topic of discussion, I would ask you to tone things down in future posts and your thoughts relating to political topics. I don't mind politics being discussed here, however; I have stated prior that they must be discussed in check at all times, its not just an onslaught here. This is not a military forum, you are not talking to other soldiers only, you must post in order to appease your audience, not piss them off. Please be careful with such things... I will moderate members who intentionally strive to cause conflict.

 

[anthony]

I am reopening this thread now and I want all participants to remember the forum rules as covered in the FAQ section, specifically:

Member Code of Conduct

• All members are allowed their opinion, neither right nor wrong, and a person's opinion must be respected.
• As per (1), no member is to attack another member because of their opinion, or failure to accept another's opinion.
• No member has a crystal ball, so don't guess or think you know what another is thinking; simply ask or clarify if a response is taken the correct way.
• All members may vent, yell, rant, rave, etc. etc., however; none of which at any time is to be directed towards another member. There is a difference in venting anger vs. venting anger at another member.
• Individuals who continue to act in ways deemed detrimental to other members of PTSD Forum may be banned or restricted from future postings.
• Posts deemed disruptive to the overall nature of PTSD Forum may be removed at the discretion of the moderator.
• Suicidal posts are not to be made. Talking about suicidal ideation is one thing, consuming a community's attention to suicidal posts is another. Posts about pending suicide will be removed immediately.
• When wrong or in doubt, step back to evaluate, and say sorry or clarify. Simple isn't it?

PLAY NICE AND RESPECT ANOTHER'S OPINION. KEEP OPINIONS AS OPINIONS, NOT AS ATTACKS.

 

[batgirl]

I'm actually going to stay out of this thread now because I realized it's triggered me about my brother, who is currently serving in Afghanistan. I've gotten overly upset because of that personal reason more than anything, and I wanted to apologize if I was rude to anyone.

But I did want to say briefly before I go, I heard from a couple of members on here that you guys didn't know that Canada was serving in Afghanistan! :eek: The truth is, we've had a presence in Afghanistan since 2001, shortly after 9/11!! We have a large number of troops there currently. So to anyone who thinks Canada isn't trying to help with the war on terror, we are! In a big way, considering we are a small country. Please educate yourselves about what our country is doing overseas before making quick judgements on us.

 

[grace5555]

I am thankful ya'all are in Afghanistan, Evie, and believe that is most important! You smaller countries can only be involved in so many conflicts. Us bigger countries have our limits as well and should be involved to a larger extent in more conflicts such as Darfur, etc., but we can only be spread so thin as well.

Anyways...I too am bowing out of this as I am rather ill at the moment and don't have the energy for these kinds of "discussion". lol

Have fun, guys...

 

[TDurden1937]

Hey -- I'll say nothin' except I just found out Canada and Australia both have forces there. See, I don't watch TV. It really suck's here in the US. Startin' a fight here . . . sorry, eh . . . has taught me sumthin'. The US has plenty of help as long as that dumb dumb bush doesn't start a personal war. Eh, his days are numbered.

I pity the poor insurgents, well kind'a. The Canadian's and Aussie's are fightin' devils, dangerous, very dangerous.

GI's are lucky to have ya'll there, damn lucky, eh.

 

[anthony]

The war in Iraq was a political gesture of benefit to those in power who lost monies from their investments. Now for those who believe this is off a country aspect, you couldn't be further from the truth. Firstly, the US is not actually a world super power any longer, you need to jump outside the US patriotic beliefs to actually take a better look at the world before you continue stating those mis-truths. China is now the world super power, it holds more people, more weapons, more money, more ability to fight than any other country in the world. China owns a good proportion of the US and other countries... it is the factually recognised super power of the world today (go look it up). The US officially lost that statement last year. No doubt the US is still calling itself the world super power, because that is what the US does... spreads mis-truth to its citizens and attempts to do the same to the world. Many US citizens who travel outside the US actually travel with fear and malice now, in that they often keep their head down and to themselves, because the rest of the world actually don't like the US as a whole any longer.

Yes, citizens are innocent in this, although, our lovely governments tend to tar all citizens with its brush. Just look at North Korea as an example, the president Kim Jong-il is a fruit cake, he rules with dictatorship, he starves his country and kills his own people. North Korea is a worry to the rest of the world, though the citizens of that country certainly never signed up for that type of rule or lifestyle, you would find they actually want peace and freedom. When referred however, one typically states that North Korea as a country is a major problem to the world, regardless there a innocent citizens that want peace and freedom, the facts still remain that within that country is an army that will fight because they are told to fight. If they don't, then their family are killed, or they are killed, even both. They breed fear into their citizens to conform or die. Again, the country is still tarred with the same brush, dictatorship and dangerous.

The US actually have a simliar method of control, except they call it "patriotic" or "patriotism" instead of dictatorship. They use similar tactics to Korea, innuendo, lies, mis-truth to the citizens of the country, the world even. America utilise God as a weapon, not just as a worship. If you are raised to believe in a higher power, you will fight for that power. If you are taught to not think for yourself, instead act in a patriotic manner because your country demands it, then people often will do so.

Not only were US citizens and the world citizens sent into Iraq as a mis-truth, they where blanketed with lies and dictatorship tactics to fight for something that not only never existed, but was made to believe exist even after proven it did not.... (biological weapons). Its about oil, nothing more, nothing less. Its not just about American investment in that oil, its about America's good friends the Arabs investment in that oil. The Arabs cannot go getting themselves into more conflict, so money instead dictates America to do so.

The US president's families company isn't proven and aligned with the Bin-Laden group for nothing now... why was Bin-Laden never captured? Because that is the aim... and why would two family companies with significant power and influence in both countries want the one person of common interest caught? If they caught him then America would have to remove itself from the country.... so they instead used that dictatorship type tactic of blanket mis-truth and innuendo to get focued on Sadaam instead. Yes, he was an evil man and deserved to be taken out, but why not just say that in the first place? Why use lies and other issues to gain access? Because America would have lost control and money of certain oil rights.... as the US are the worlds largest consumer per capita of fossil fuel.

And that is what the entire war in Iraq boils down too.... fossil fuel = money. Not one solider who signed up ever did so thinking this, nor have they done wrong doing what ordered to do.... it is not the soldiers fault, it is not countries citizens fault, it is at political level of Government that the issue exists. UK prime minister got booted because of the war, Australian prime minister booted, the US one will be overwhelmingly booted also.... not sure about the Canadian one. Many countries Government have been booted from power because of the war in Iraq decisions.

America had no right to ever enter that country, plain and simple. America never had a right to drag other countries into the fight under false evidence, but it did. America wonders why some of these countries retaliate against them and call them terrorists, which they are, however; it is the only way they can get their message across to get out of their country and leave their countries politics alone. America believe they have the right to enter countries, attempt to put their political stamp upon that country and believe it will just follow. Did America learn nothing from Vietnam? You just cannot go into another country and believe you can take it over, control it or manipulate it and that those citizens are going to lay down and take it. It doesn't work, never has, and still isn't for the American Government. The only thing the US Government are achieving from this is population control by killing their own people in what is legally a legal method through war. Very sad, though quite true.

America is broke, it is trillions in debt. The country doesn't own a single thing it does any more.... China owns it and America is in debt to China for it. The bombs, bullets, missiles, fuel in the planes and ships.... the pay for soldiers.... all China's money which the US Government owe them.

America need to pull their patriotic little Governmental heads in, they need to get their troops out of any country they where not asked to help in the first place, then focus on building a stable economy and growth internally, for atleast the next 20 years. Now some terrorists are still going to have some issues from the past and carry those into those two decades, though America must deal with that and not retaliate against them, instead prove their ability to remain outside of other countries unless expressly asked to help, and when asked, they respect that countries rights and beliefs, when under control they leave. Simple... easy, effective, and it builds relations between countries instead of the world hating Americans in general because of the countries political rule and viewpoint. Really not good being an American and travelling presently... they don't get looked upon very well at present throughout the world.

Some of what I have mentioned is fact, some is my opinion.... I am not attacking America, only outlining my opinion and some facts surrounding it. Often Americans here have learnt some facts kept from itself after they go searching the web.... Again, my two cents in this stupid war and the issues surrounding it. It is hard not to outline the US as an implicating factor in opinion considering the US is the main offender to this entire issue. Again, not the soldiers fault... soldiers do as they are told.

 

[Deleted member 541]

Anthony,

What really cracks me up........The rebate checks that most Americans will receive in a few weeks-months......The money was borrowed from China. Money that has to be paid back with interest.... We will then buy things here in the states that were made in China. So all we do is help China's economy.

You are right Anthony, the US is in financial straights, we are broke and getting broker.......We produce nothing, we own nothing anymore, and our government is willing to sell off everything. Pisses me right off.

If I spent money like our government does.... I would be bankrupt, out on the street, eating out of garbage pails. But they just keep spending, spending, and borrowing more and more from China.

End of my rant....

 

[TDurden1937]

Well since ya'll still want to post here .

Here is an intersting ling with a few statistics about GNP http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/gnp.html.
Here's another link that puts China at # 3 http://www.lonympics.co.uk/worldsmostpowerfulcountries.htm
Here is a link that project gnp over the next few years http://sun-bin.blogspot.com/2005/12/when-will-chinas-gdp-overtake-us.html

I know GNP is a rough calculation of output cause it includes things like making weapons, cleaning up oil spills, and doesn't include things like quality of life. But as I see it the US still heads the list by rather a good margin.

Also, I remember the years when China had a huge army, extremely powerful on paper, only they had no way to project it.

Unless, China has changed recently, at last I remember they didn't have much of a Navy. Hard to project power when ya got no navy.

However, the way China is growing it is one country that could cause some serious power shifts over the years.

 

[Lisa]

Well I never knew a lot of that, so thanks Anthony. Certainly didn't realise China is the Super Power now!