Existential Therapy

[Laura 2]

@Springer80 - Your list is spot on, thank you for that. We could add lots I'm sure. All those bloody platitudes that we are fed to keep us quiescent and deluded....

In a way I was fortunate that I'd lived a whole, highly functional and by and large successful life before I was felled by the crimes that produced PTSD. So I had that strong experience to fall back on (even so, I had a major stress breakdown at one point and have looked at the world very differently since then: most certainly, it isn't what they tell us it is. It's why I can't watch telly or listen to Radio4...they just all sound delusional to me now) - but for a child to be brought up with this horrific betrayal right from the get go...one must always be feeling like an alien in a new terrain and carefully feeling your way through all sorts of hidden pitfalls and new terrors...It's soooo undermining to have to second-guess yourself all the time.

/having a i-hate-people-moment now thinking about what people do to precious little children

 

[Laura 2]

You know, I think it's true to say that it's the tools I gained through studying not psychology (as one might expect) but philosophy, particularly existentialism and the deconstructionists (Barthes was my fave), that enabled me to maintain my sanity through all my nightmare and to be able to analyse and counter all the many and damaging gobsmacking irrationalities of various services' staff.

 

[Pencil]

It was literature that saved me. After every therapist I went through half a library to regain my sanity :D

 

[Laura 2]

Has anyone ever tried this for ptsd? What is your experience with it?

Apologies, ESN, we seem to have gone off at a bit of a tangent.

I read your link and saw how it connected with e.g. what I'd learnt of existentialism as a doctrine and it made sense.

In fact, I think that therapy might well work for me. It's holistic and doesn't dwell on the past - which is full of conflicting narratives - but fully embraces and accepts the suffering whilst looking to the future and building on real strengths.

Does CBT do that?

 

[Pencil]

I was about to say: 'Apologies @EvenStrongerNow. The short answer to your question is no, I have no experience."

An integral part of existential therapy is dealing with the inevitability of death, i.e. the ephemeral nature of life. (That was what made me think of the Somerset Maugham quote.) But instead of being nihilistic, it focuses on meaning.

 

[EvenStrongerNow]

I just wonder what a session would look like in treating ptsd. I've been reading about it. It seems to focus on the here and now, no?

I don't mind the discussion. It is interesting. My mind often wanders toward philosophy. It kind of hinders me in a way...thoughts of existence scare the crap out of me and cause me to dissociate. The discussions also cause me to feel depressed although it's still really fascinating to me at the same time. Does anyone else experience that?

 

[xena21]

there's a old book called "Man's Search for Meaning" by Victor Frankl, who was a psychiatrist and holocaust survivor. The early title of that book was "Death Camp Existentialism".

I had just recently heard about this. I'm not a zealot by any means. I just heard about it by a Psych nurse who thought it was interesting. He was telling me how important it was for the search for meaning in your life. The search for purpose...that's what I was looking for. I found it interesting because that's one of my main dilemmas. I have no purpose in life. Victor Frankl spoke on this and it is very meaningful from that perspective. As far as any other PTSD issue I have no idea...

 

[Powder]

I am not a philosopher, but I have studied theory and have taught Frankl's book in college one term.

In reading it through with others and alone, I found his perspective to be valid. In fact, I'm a fan of his attitude and the chosen attitude of many survivors, which I find refreshing at times. People who have come through more than most have ever endured yet still choose to have a creator attitude rather than a victim one are high on my respect list.

I have one criticism of the book, and that is not a criticism of it for its time, but for our time. Frankl was a psychiatrist who specialized in depression and suicide. He was not studying in a time period in which PTSD was even thought of yet. In fact, for someone who lived through years of trauma and exposure to others' and collective trauma, he seems to be limited to the thinking he was trained in, namely psychoanalytic theory.

For example, I am an incest child sexual abuse survivor. I have had some issues with sex as an adult, including but not limited to body memory/pain, dissociation during sex, anger after sex, panic attacks during sex, etc. However, according to Man's Search for Meaning, toward the end of the final chapter on Logotherapy, my condition was reduced to "overintention" meaning that my only problem is that I think I won't enjoy sex because of the way it was used against me in the past. Therefore, I am "trying too hard" to like it, thus confounding my own intentions.

This is really beside the point and just not trauma-informed. Now, it's just that trauma studies were in their infancy still, and we still have a long way to go.

All I'm saying is that it is a Classic, a must-read, but don't it as gospel or as up-to-date theoretically about trauma. That said, I prize the narrative and the person who wrote the book far above the theory developed. Just the role model Frankl set is worthy of reading the book. I highly regard him as a moral, decent and generous human being who I live to emulate in character.

 

[Pencil]

I firmly believe that Logotherapy can be powerful in Post Traumatic Growth, but that trauma has to be dealt with first. Existential therapy / logotherapy focuses on the here and now and the future, and does not deal with the past. Without successfully dealing with the past, existential therapy could be a waste of time.

 

[Laura 2]

I just wonder what a session would look like in treating ptsd. I've been reading about it. It seems to focus on the here and now, no?

I don't mind the discussion. It is interesting. My mind often wanders toward philosophy. It kind of hinders me in a way...thoughts of existence scare the crap out of me and cause me to dissociate. The discussions also cause me to feel depressed although it's still really fascinating to me at the same time. Does anyone else experience that?

You've pointed out what could be a pitfall for me in existential therapy - when times are tough or I can't bring myself to talk about the memories etc I often switch into intellectualising mode. So it can hinder. But that tendency has, I believe, also saved me (as far as I am saved!) I don't know, could it be a way of dissociating?

I don't get depressed in an existential way, but I do get very downhearted because, like, we KNOW all this stuff, we know how many sages and philosophers over the ages have always given us good answers as to how to live in community, how to organise ourselves so that even the weakest are cared for with kindness and compassion...but still we have governments that force a sort of savagery and barbarianism on us and encourage crime/disorder/corruption among us - usually in their own scramble for power and money and kwikfixes to keep the populace quiet.[DOUBLEPOST=1401440513,1401440328][/DOUBLEPOST]

Without successfully dealing with the past, existential therapy could be a waste of time.

Yes, indeed. I'd like to see how existential therapy deals with this crucial element.

 

[WillyKat]

Agree with you @Muse, its a classic but not up to date. Nevertheless, the first time I read it I found a lot of power in it. Just a few months ago, I read it again and had the same result. The ideas of embracing the struggle and finding *meaning* in it is really huge for me.

Now that I've read @EvenStrongerNow's link, I find that it also has the advantage of not being in conflict with any other kind of therapy. I'll have to delve into it some more, so thanks for the link. Like I said, when I discovered existential philosophy in college, I felt a lot less alone. Here are all these great thinkers that just like me, found a lot of meaninglessness in modern life. It was a tremendous sense of validation and I began to see that the problems weren't with me so much as they were about the world we live in. Powerful stuff.

Good thread @EvenStrongerNow.

 

[Laura 2]

I began to see that the problems weren't with me so much as they were about the world we live in.

Perhaps the most fundamental truth anyone with a mental illness must thoroughly grasp.