God's Not Dead - Evolution Or Religion?

[anthony]

I just watched the movie, God's Not Dead, twice... and it was absolutely amazing, to say the least. I'm not a Christian, or even religious, but I more sit on the fence and can see arguments for and against evolution versus religious beliefs.

The movie really had some captivating moments for me, and just food for thought about all these different people within the movie, who intersect at moments, some without knowing, and are connected by the very same debate that a freshman challenges his professor with, upon refusing to state that God is Dead for an easy credit for the first part of the course.

I honestly don't believe anyone has the actual answer in this debate, it is all about individual beliefs. The freshman (Josh) states that for a Christian their moral compass that depicts their lives choices is a straight line between them and god. Without that compass, anything goes. Well... I'm pretty sure free will still exists without a straight line to a belief system, and choices can be equally as positive and good.

The debate within the movie... well... it gave a really good insight to both aspects. Science or Religion? Well, a third option maybe... being a little of both.

There was a young girl who was Muslim, and secretly changed her faith to Christianity. When her father discovered this he slapped her around and then tossed her out of his house. He believed that you must worship Allah, and Allah is the all and powerful God. I thought that Muslims and Christians actually both worshipped the same entity, just by different names. Amazing though how faith can cause both positive, and negative reactions, from all kinds of people. Josh's girlfriend, a Christian, breaks up with him because he challenged the professor, against her wishes and demands. Is that really what a Christian would do? Or would they accept their partners choice and support them? Negatives, positives... hmmmmm!

The world is becoming more complicated by the day, IMO... but this is one hell of a good movie, especially considering I'm not a religious person, though I have my own doubts about both sides of the evolution vs religion argument.

A really good bit that took me back a bit, was a son who had a good life, wealthy, an investor, lots of money and everything was great... he sits with his mother who is dying from dementia and asks her why, if there was a God, that she is dying and his life is so perfect. She replies simply, "that the devil doesn't want his people to die, yet they're all in a cage with the door open and they can leave at any time." Then she asks him his name again...

I tend to agree with that aspect, not whether there is a devil or not, but that free will provides us our choices, and IF there is a heaven and hell, then we have an open door at all aspects of our lives, we make our choices, and IF there is something after this life, then we've made those choices and endure what comes. There are those who have died and simply see nothing, nothing at all... claiming its all nonsense. There was no white light or other such illusion of a dead relative.

What is real, what is fact, what is provable? The movie is fictional, though based on factual lawsuits from American campuses against faculties who attempt to stigmatise religion, remove it from teachings and so forth, all praising science and evolution instead. Again... neither can be proved right or wrong, so really, that is discrimination at its best. So far... the religious students and organisations have won all cases, some on appeal, because neither is proved. The American currency has "In God we trust" embellished upon it, thus the American Government itself cites God exists. Hard to argue that when ruling in courts...

Have you watched it? What did you think?

 

[The Albatross]

It's been on my list to see and is only on pay per view just now. I wanted to see it because the daughter of an elder in my church was having some significant difficulties with some of her professors in college because she was a Christian. Sarah. Sarah was singled out by two professors and endeavored to stand her ground quite publically in the courses, not as extremely as the trailer for the movie, but it was tough for her nonetheless.

Ultimately she abandoned her major in the science field, and became a teacher. She is also now working at a museum. She was very candid about her experiences in college and that though she had a brilliant mind, if she didn't swallow Darwinism and regurgitate it on cue she would not pass her class. In some areas of academia Christians face open hostility and are held up for ridicule because of their faith choice.

It used to be that science and theology were two aspects of a scientific mind, like a left and right hemisphere of the brain. Some of the most brilliant scientists of the 18th and 19th centuries were people of faith. But in the last hundred years plus, science has been elevated and faith has been pushed into the basement and is used as a method to pressure students into accepting the necessity of ignoring, downplaying, or abandoning completely their faith based thinking in order to excel and succeed in scientific studies and the profession.

The two books theory that preceded the current climate held that science and faith were compatible: Science was observable and measurable aspects of the works of "God" - revelation, while theology was the study of divine revelation about the character of God. Two hemispheres of the 18th and 19th century brain, or the left and right hands of the study of the world.

 

[anthony]

I would also add... its possibly a good tear jerker for those who need a good cry by movie episode. It has plenty of those moments.

 

[The Albatross]

I went back and dug up a link about an article that digs a little deeper into the two books theory here: Link Removed

From the article: "Augustine clearly rejected the notion that God had created the earth in six 24-hours periods. Instead, he believed that the universe was created instantaneously, and that the six days reported in Genesis were a metaphor for the various levels of dimensions of the created realm—something akin to what ancients referred to as the ‘Great Chain of Being’. But this is not to say that Augustine believed that the world was created as it is today in that instant. Rather, he affirmed that God created the world with inchoate potential for further development, like an acorn that will grow into a great tree when planted in the ground.

Augustine therefore affirmed that Creation has evolved and continues to evolve, though not driven by random natural processes, as affirmed by classical Darwinism. Instead, such evolution is governed providentially both via the inchoate potentialities present in the world from its beginning and by God’s ongoing governance of the universe. We should be careful not to turn Augustine too quickly into a modern advocate of theistic evolution, but the similarities are nevertheless significant. Augustine affirmed these ideas not on the basis of an attempt to accommodate Scripture to scientific discovery, but based upon his own reading of Scripture! Indeed, I think it fair to say that the great father of Western Christianity was something of a proto-evolutionary theist, and therefore one whose work deserves far more attention by those seeking to be faithful to both Scripture and Christian tradition while making sense of the claims of contemporary science."

Okay... off topic, but will bring it back around when I see the movie. It's on tonight at a time where I'll be able to see it.

 

[Recovery4Me]

Anthony, I am in awe that you brought up this topic and movie with all your pain and with the trauma of seeing so many others in pain without the appearance of relief. I can not thank your tolerance of other opinions within your site enough.

I am watching the movie today due to your post actually. I had been putting it off because...my friend that recommended it (like one of the characters in the movie) has cancer. I at times wobble in my understanding of how my Higher Power or God works and hurt inside to see so many in agony.

I may have some of the standard theological answers at times but it does not side step the torture of seeing others go through so much. So I will offer more on this after I pray and see the movie. However, I have been in a similar situation during my education in a philosophy class at Morgan State University: I can assure you that all the cases do not win. I did managed a B in that class with a pass or fail option during discourse of God. Another pass in a Economical Institute (no less) trying to prove God's existence, so I can not apparently debate well enough or I am not gifted in that area...just a believer with a lot of personal miracles among devastation.

Again, thank you for your tolerance. Peace.

 

[scout86]

This looks like a great movie! Now I have to figure out a way to see the whole thing.

@anthony , I know the debate often gets framed as "religion vs evolution" or "science vs religion". I wish it was different! Personally, I see no contradiction between science and God. They are both about "truth". They pose no threat to each other, other than threats people chose to create. "Religion" and "God" get confused a lot too. "Religion", at least to me, is something people come up with, in an attempt to understand or explain "God". Being people, we probably get it wrong more than we get it right. I imagine that, often, God cringes at the misguided antics of some of his alleged followers. (I imagine that, because I believe there IS a God, obviously. :))

Now, to see if I can find that movie!

 

[scout86]

Just wanted to add, this must be a very popular movie around here. My library system has a dozen copies. They are all checked out and I'm #116 in the queue!

 

[Recovery4Me]

The movie did allow me to release tears and move some things inside that were "stuck" concerning facing my Christian friend's medical condition. I couldn't grasp what I was to do in our mutual faith, as I was too sad. I feel that I can be there for her more now, instead of keeping a safer distance because of my fear of triggering. The movie addressed it lightly through interwoven scenarios that assist in hope & courage.

I will watch God is Not Dead, again (as I am sure my nose blowing got in some of the dialog’s way).

I am so grateful for this site, staff, monitors, silent contributors and those members that share. It was kind of you to open the thread Anthony. I will learn by your effort and try to honor others and their differing opinions with as great of courtesy as you have shown. Thank you for the allowance of our mentioning God and the film.

 

[Barberian]

I have not seen the movie, but plan on watching it when it is free. Free is my price of choice.

I had several paragraphs written below but deleted them. It was my view on faith, religion, and the Bible. It would have been off topic of the movie and I don't want to co-opt this thread from the movie to my beliefs without being able to relate them to the OP.

 

[anthony]

I can assure you that all the cases do not win.

I'm not talking about in the classroom or school, but the courts. In the courts, the discrimination is winning, and those who lost and appeal, are winning on appeal because you cannot discriminate as an institution. Those cases that never make it to court... obviously very different.

 

[anthony]

I will learn by your effort and try to honor others and their differing opinions

That is usually the problem with these discussions, and why they more often than not, get closed on most Internet forums... people don't respect others opinions. I always find it quite amusing too, especially when it is a highly religious person who argues that their belief system is right, trying to shove a God down others throats... when I always though religion was about accepting everyone for who they are, and not trying to make them accept you and your belief system. Irony is humorous at times.

I absolutely loved the movie. The title is not scary, and if you move past the assumption (assumptions are the mother of all f*ckups) that the movie is about religious doctrine, you will be surprised it isn't, and more it's entirety is based on the premise of respecting others views, beliefs and accepting we all have free will to make our own choices. Respect is the single word I would use to take from that movie... and the movie shows just how much both religious and non-religious persons just don't respect diversity.

We live in a multi-cultural world... white, black, brown, orange, pink or purple, whatever colour skin, whatever race, we are all people and thus we all have different beliefs. Accept, respect, nothing further required.

 

[Britt.f7]

Interesting that you should bring this up when I just found out my son doesn't believe in God. I have no intentions of watching the movie, because I don't want anything messing with my beliefs. I don't understand why science and God can't commingle. I suppose I should watch it to challenge myself. I don't know. Something to indeed think about.