Question From Spouse

[Unaware]

I've actually thought a lot about the "being who you are" thing from a different perspective. With my ex, and in most of my relationships, I've "gone along to get along" and never expected my feelings to count. Eventually things got to the point of being intolerable and I left. Had I expected that "i" actually counted from the start, those relationships wouldn't have happened, and that would have been better. I'm not at all sure that there would have been other, better relationships in their place, but at least we'd all have been spared those bad relationships.

I guess what I'm hoping is that you can find a way to not take your wife's lack of disclosure personally. She, and I, have a different road map of reality than you do. My T says we all have our own road maps and that that is ok, but to remember that they are all just maps. None of them are "reality".

Scout 86 this is a profound and helpful answer. What it tells me is that perhaps I am just at the beginning of a journey that my wife and I have to take together. I thought that I understood it but based on your answer I do not. I am responding based on my reality, not the reality of someone who did not receive the nurturing that I did as a child. How can you reveal yourself, if you don't really know yourself?

I need to look for patience and forgiveness at a level that perhaps I did not realize. I want to do this because my family is the most important thing in my life. It is the thing I am the most proud of and all that really matters to me.

 

[Kefira]

I've been following this with interest. I've been open about my history of abuse when I've entered relationships. This has often caused complications: a partner trying to fix me and then getting upset when I don't, a partner writing off everything I do (including ending things with him based on borderline abuse to 'help me') as being caused by my disorder. In my experience, even with well intentioned people who love us the stigma against mental illness can still manifest and is even more hurtful when it does. A 'why can't you leave all of that in the past' said unthinkingly or out of frustration by a partner is more hurtful than true judgement from others. So I've honestly considered whether to be as forthcoming when I eventually begin pursuing relationships again. But I know that eventually that will cause a huge problem too. Really no way to win.

I will say that while I have been open about my history, I have gone to great lengths to hide how ill I was when my symptoms were at their worst. Even when my relationships we relatively solid and I trusted the people involved, at least for me there is a level of paranoia associated with displaying symptoms. All of the shame and self loathing fuels an overwhelming survival instinct to prevent those closest to me from having a reason to abandon me. I've sat in dark parking lots for hours pretending to be out with friends who wouldn't return my calls in order to avoid social events at my shared home. I've hidden driving an hour to where I used to live in order to get groceries for a period of months while I didn't feel safe in a new neighborhood. I've made excuses for why errands weren't done in order not to admit my agoraphobia was unmanageable. And to me, in the moment, the only way I had any chance of being loved even a little and not losing the people who mattered most was to be what I thought they wanted.

I'm sorry you feel betrayed by her actions. But none of what she chooses to tell you or not to tell you or what she does or doesn't do is about you. Abuse is unacceptable and isn't excused by her disorder. But what has occurred is absolutely about her: her personality/awareness/dedication to healing in combination with the PTSD.

Just my .02

 

[Unaware]

Kefira,
First of all thank you for your reply.
All of these comments are helping me to understand at a much deeper level just how she feels. She struggles explaining things to me. She has a very hard time verbalizing how she feels. It seems at time that she cannot get past the shame and guilt.

I read Judith Herman's book "Trauma and Recovery" over the weekend. It helped me to understand C-PTSD at a surface level. The comments you and others have shared with me are beginning to paint a picture that helps me to feel better about everything. It is hard to understand that in a intimate relationship someone could never bring themselves to tell their partner about something as important as an abusive past.

I feel that my wife did not understand how she was affected. Our relationship predates the time in our society where child abuse was a subject to be discussed. She did the best she could of prior to me but was never able to establish a stable relationship before ours. She was ashamed about it and hid it from me, painting a very different picture of her past. With the birth of our children I believe that there was a healing effect due to the unconditional love that the children gave her. She was and is a fantastic mother, it is her crowning glory in life.

 

[ghotiff]

Maybe this perspective will help.

I dream of the day that I am healed enough, from my childhood sexual abuse, that I don't have to tell my partner. My oddness is so obvious in a relationship that I have had to disclose to all my boyfriends before we were even dating. I'm happily married, but I still dream of not having to disclose. I don't want it to define me. I don't want it to be a significant part of me.

The other thing to consider is - how much was she believed as a child. I was abused outside the home, my parents knew when I was 10 but sent me to that class for the next 5 years (their response is called "denial" and is more common than you would expect).

While being abused I reached out to many people in an effort to get help. No one helped me and no one ever asked me about it after that one conversation. I learnt to keep it to myself. It's very painful to tell someone and have them either not believe or minimize it. The more I respect someone, the more painful this is.

My husband while he knows, he doesn't "get" it and if I discuss anything he minimizes it which hurts. I dont think he means to do this or is even aware of it but it hurts, so I don't discuss it. In fairness to him, how can someone understand something that is so different to their experiences.

Hope that helps.

 

[Unaware]

ghotiff....this does help. She was never heard as a child. She still struggles with feeling that people listen to her. I never understood what she meant until recently. When the abuse started with her mother she went to her father to ask for help. His answer was "don't make your Mother upset". Her older sister left home as soon as she could and my wife was left alone with a VERY abusive mother while her father took a job that mandated that he was only home on weekends half of which he spent on the golf course. She was alone and captive.

 

[scout86]

I am responding based on my reality, not the reality of someone who did not receive the nurturing that I did as a child. How can you reveal yourself, if you don't really know yourself?

Exactly. And how can you trust that you'll be accepted when that has never been your experience.

You're right, I think, in viewing it as a journey and one that you take together. In the end, you might find that you have a better and closer relationship that you could have imagined.

One of the things that's kind of funny about this is that I can relate EXACTLY to how hard it is to imagine the world as she sees it, because it's that hard for me to imagine it as YOU see it. I'm forever running in to situations where I get a new insight and think, "Really? People actually think that way?" One of the advantages I have is that I have a couple of friends who aren't put off when I do that. One in particular where I used to joke that he was helping me write a social cheat sheet. (He once told me that "the appropriate thing to do with a compliment is say 'thank you' then shut up." Because I always argued that I didn't deserve the compliment and I honestly didn't know what I was supposed to do with it. Having him flat out say that was great, weird as that might sound.)

I hope your journey goes well and that, in the end you can both say "It hasn't always been easy, but it's been worth it!"

 

[NicG]

@Unaware can I just say how remarkably well you are dealing with all of this! It sounds like you have a relatively concrete self esteem in that you refuse to take abusive behaviour anymore, and perhaps having that attitude (in a kind and loving way of course) might show your wife a little example of what real self esteem and self care look like. In the first stages of my recovery, I didn't understand these things, so I just modelled myself on the good examples I had around me. I had no idea how to act like a functional human being so I just blatantly copied the people I trusted and hoped for the best. It's working gradually... seeing the the world doesn't end when I at least pretend that I count has been rather therapeutic!

You're getting such a good response here because, I guess to put it simply, "you're doing it right." In that you're doing your best to understand, and you seem to accept that you can't understand everything, and that's okay. Perhaps you could try to communicate a little bit of this to your wife? If she's only just starting her journey towards healing then she probably doesn't know how to communicate what she's going through. It might be validating for her to hear something that makes a bit of sense in that regard. I think you also could benefit from explaining everything you said about the apology, both for your own sake, and so that she can see what a more "normal" response to abuse is.
Maybe you could try writing a letter? That way you get to think about what you want to say, she can read it whenever she's in a good frame of mind, and it's more concrete than a conversation... she can reread it and it'll reinforce what you've said.

 

[Kefira]

I read Judith Herman's book "Trauma and Recovery" over the weekend.

I think it's wonderful you're willing to become educated and are working hard to figure this out, to support her, and to reestablish lost trust in the relationship. My only caution would be to understand that different people do experience trauma and resulting disorders differently. So just always be watching and willing to reassess. If she is able to eventually get to a place where she can explain to you her perspective and what her reality is, that's always your best information. If not, she may be telling you in ways other than words. But if something you're doing that "should help" based on "how PTSD works" seems to be counterproductive be willing to examine it. I only say this because of my experience with well meaning people deciding they knew better than I did and refusing to realize the damage they were doing until it was too late. It's really easy to cross that line without meaning to, since you're trying to take care of someone who is ill and a skewed perception of reality is part of the illness.

Sounds like this may be a pivotal time in the relationship on both ends. Hopefully she is able to see how much it has been impacting not only her, but the relationship and get the help she needs. It's also important you continue getting the support you need. My opinion of relationships where PTSD is involved is that you're sort of constantly seeking balance. It takes a lot of communication and a lot of work, from both parties. And it's very hard to know when to call out the sufferer for unhelpful behavior (except in cases where it's abusive or obviously harmful to one or both of you) and when you should support them. It's tough to find the line between unconditional love and enabling. Even a lot of us who are reasonably self aware most of the time struggle to keep the symptoms in check and manageable. It's absolute hell when you don't even know what's wrong with you or even that anything is amiss..

 

[Unaware]

Thanks everyone. The comments are reassuring.

The multiple perspectives on what her reality is helps more than anything I have read. Books are static, these replies and suggestions are not.

I can say that i have NOT understood this well. I am a reasonably bright person but when you have a breakdown, get as hurt as i have been and experience the anger I have there is little room for understanding. It has been an uphill climb to get where I am today. I know I have a long way to go.

When I first sat down with the therapist the first words out of my mouth were that I love my wife and that my goal was to stay in the marriage. There have been times that I have felt differently, but I always end up back at my love for her.

I hope that as I move through all of this I don't where out my welcome with all of you because all of you are helping me to understand.

I am ok with her being different, we are all different and that is what makes us unique. I like who she is, I truly do. No one in my life has been able to reach me the way she can. I want the best for her and of course for us. I want her abusive mother out of her life and head. I hope that she can find peace so that I can find peace.

 

[Unaware]

Ok....so I sat down with my wife tonight and tried to explain to her in a loving way that I need to be able to work through my emotions about all that has happened between us in light of the recent revelations.

She does not get it. She is not there yet. My emotions are black or white. I walked away feeling the same way I always do...like I have just put my hand in a meat grinder. She degrades me about having feelings as if they are a bad thing. She sees my emotions as a bad thing....not feeling for her is better than feeling especially when the emotions are about her. The conversations always end the same way, with her beating me up about the feelings that I have.

I am beyond hopeless when this happens. I love her. I feel so small and alone when the conversation is over.

I know this is because of what she has been through. But it still leaves me feeling small and unloved.

 

[Lucycat]

As I said before I am now 5 years into my journey. I still struggle to understand feelings and emotions. All the books in the world don't help. They describe things I simply don't understand. What does 'feel' mean if you are telling someone who has never 'felt'

I think you are trying too hard too soon. Live it rather than talk about it. It is so frustrating when you don't understand something, just as she clearly doesn't understand you right now.

For those of us in the situation life is black and white. Good/bad. Right/wrong. It is a developmental part that takes a long time to form in a normal childhood, so will also take a very long time to 'correct' in an adult. Those shades of grey don't make any sense to us. And that is one tiny part of her childhood she needs to unlearn and then relearn. There is so much work to do. No wonder you are both feeling overwhelmed.

I think she needs to learn her own reality before she can understand yours. You are a contradiction to her. It is easier to be numb, so how can she possibly understand that you choose something different that she maybe sees as having the potential to cause distress.

I think you will both progress in your own individual therapy. But leave therapy for the therapists.

 

[Unaware]

Thanks Lucycat for the advice. As I said earlier, this is very counter intuitive. Nothing in my life has prepared me for this.

I have always been a person that takes care of the people I love. I try to insure that my family has what ever they need to move forward in life. I am a successful person from a monetary stand point and have gotten enjoyment from being able to give my wife and children a comfortable life where the four of us could flourish.

My marriage, my wife are my foundation. As the events this year have unfolded my world has been shifted and I guess I feel that I need to fix it.

I don't need therapy, I just need to understand this better. I responded very quickly with the therapist I worked with. Once I understood that the breakdown was from the abuse I was able to put the pieces back together quickly. She gave me the tools I needed to heal over time.

This is a new reality and I guess I just need to let it unfold before I can truly adjust and understand it.