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Question From Spouse

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Ultimately your happiness is centered in yourself. Work on your own happiness and take the focus off of her. It is good to be supportive and loving but to be attached to certain outcomes and progress leads to pain and disappointment. We are each on our own path and yet cannot walk in each other's footsteps. I know I have to remind myself of this as I get off-kilter at times. My response can be to cling and to over-extend myself under the thought that I am being loving and giving. Then I get off-balance and sad.
 
Morning Dove I completely get that my happiness is my responsibility.

In the early part of our relationship my wife worked hard to get me to shut down a large part of my emotional self. I did not realize what was going on. The result is that I was stuck ruminating most of the last 28 years about how I felt about us and her. She could never bring herself to let me express my emotions. She did not want them and did not get it. I was stuck trying to understand her and us in a world where I was completely unaware(hence the tag) of what was happening. I simply could not talk about my feelings to her and she made it very clear over and over again in her reactions every time I tried to broach the subject that it was not acceptable.

My shutting down ended up in my breakdown.

I am at the point where I realize that I can no longer stifle my emotions to please her. I have to be myself. And that means having, feeling, and accepting how I feel. It has taken me a very long time to recognize in myself how many ways I have shut down and how I have become centered on her emotions rather than my own. I am in the long process of forgiving myself for letting this happen to me. I just did not know what was being done to me.

The overall issue I stated at the beginning of this thread is that she cannot participate in my healing. I have tried and tried over and over and now realize that she simply cannot do it. I understand why. But it evokes a whole chain of emotions.

I am committed to letting my emotions land as they will. It is terrifying to me that I could land outside of my love for her, but I have to, or I will end up breaking down again. I do not want to loose our marriage and our love. I know that she loves me even if she may not love me like most can or do. I understand that the conditional love she has for me is the only kind that she can experience. But understanding and feeling are not the same thing. This is truly a paradox that has me scared. I love her....I love my children(they are both grown) and do not want to lose what has mattered to me most in my life.
 
It seems like she has molded you into what she wanted you to be, and now that you are saying "ENOUGH" be prepared to get a LOT of resistance from her. For 28 years you've held your emotions inside (emotionless?) and now you realize you need to express them. No doubt this will change the ENTIRE dynamic of your relationship with her. (I think I'm a bit clueless about how a "great" relationship can be emotionless on one half, then again I think I have a clue as to what's going on. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.)
 
@Solara raises a valid point. People in general (and particularly people who have reasons not to like change and to fear alteration in how their relationships are going) wouldn't respond well to a 180 change in what is acceptable behavior after decades establishing a base line.

Perhaps you can work less on her understanding your need to process, and more on setting a boundary that her judging and attacking you for the way you are is absolutely unacceptable. She doesn't need to understand the why to learn that you won't tolerate her manipulative or abusive behavior as long as you are consistent.
 
I don't need therapy, I just need to understand this better.
I strongly disagree. Although you had a fairly quick "lightbulb" moment when you got into therapy, I don't think you're done having that resource to help you process the last 28 years of your marriage. That's a biggie.

I am committed to letting my emotions land as they will. It is terrifying to me that I could land outside of my love for her, but I have to, or I will end up breaking down again. I do not want to loose our marriage and our love. I know that she loves me even if she may not love me like most can or do. I understand that the conditional love she has for me is the only kind that she can experience.
This is an incredibly dense and tangled statement. You remind me of how I think - I often think that understanding someone's motivations is enough for me to move into accepting them. By saying that you understand she can only experience conditional love for you - and also by saying that you know she loves you, and that you are terrified of losing her - you are basically saying that the only way this marriage will work is if you accept the status quo; which is, yes, deal with yourself, and try and be who you want to be as an individual, but within the context of the relationship you need to accept that she doesn't really love you fully, just who she wants you to be.

I think that's what you are saying. I don't think it's doable. I really think re-engaging with a therapist, perhaps one that specializes in relationship issues, will be productive for you.
 
Maybe the problem was not "having" emotions but the way you "expressed" them.

For example, it is known that if one is angry, hitting the other person is unacceptable. Your wife may have an additional boundary that raising your voice is not okay. For others a yelling match might be fine.

My point is maybe you don't know how to express your emotions to her in such a way that she still feels safe. A therapist would be really helpful to learn this.
 
@Kefira

The comments about therapy are well taken. The agreement with our therapist is that we go as a couple every six weeks while my wife attends weekly.

Perusing these boards yesterday and listening to everyone here has been immensely helpful. I came from loving parents who gave me unconditional love and support. They are both in their 80s and continue to do. I had a very happy childhood.

This forum has helped me understand just how bad it was for her. I reread the chapter in Judith Herman's book on Captivity. I am just beginning to grasp how bad it was for her and why she hid it.

I really think that I need to see the other side of this. For 28 years she dealt with toxic emotion on her own because she wanted the relationship. I suspect the child inside was so ashamed that she felt she would never be good enough and that I would think her unfit. She cared enough to take this upon herself. She raised two children with me and they both have talked to me about how wonderful their mother was to them and how much she means to them today. I think that while she tried her hardest there was no way humanly possible to keep the emotional flashbacks from coming back. She suffered to much at the hands of her mother. The kind of personality destruction she experienced is beyond my comprehension. We are both sure her mother was suffering from her own demons in the form of a disorder.

My wife was sexually abused in 1962. Her mother's abuse began two years later when she was 9. The historical context to Judith Herman's book speaks directly to this. This was a time when no one spoke about mental illness. This was a time when women were very much 2nd class citizens.

@NicG ,@Lucycat @scout86 ,@MorningDove all of your comments have helped. My frame of reference needs the understanding that your comments have brought me. I am not sure a therapist would be able to communicate in the same way that everyone here has.

I have to open my heart up to her and understand her frame of reference.

I want her to heal. I do not want to be a hindrance. My wife is not perfect, but I truly love her with all my heart. She has not understood herself and I need to remember that there is no way she could have. Not with what happened to her.
 
I completely agree with @Kefira. I think boundary setting is imperative in PTSD relationships. It doesn't matter why, it just matters that it *is*. Communicate to your wife that her behavior is not going to be tolerated (saying it nicely but firmly) and then stick to your guns. That may mean if she launches into a tirade where she does nothing but shut you down or criticize you, then you simply walk away without another word. The truth is that we teach others how to treat us by the behavior that we accept. No, I am not victim blaming, however it is quite true that if we accept bad behavior from people then they are a lot more likely to repeat it in the future. If we do not accept it, then well, there's the door.
 
it is quite true that if we accept bad behavior from people then they are a lot more likely to repeat it in the future. If we do not accept it, then well, there's the door.

Yes, this. I just had a rather long conversation with a close friend who also deals with PTSD making it very clear to him that he has overstepped a particular boundary for me several times. He doesn't understand, because it's a trigger and it seems minor to people outside of my head. But for me I'd basically rather he resort to physical violence because I find it that harmful psychologically. In the end I really had to work hard to get it through his head that it doesn't matter if he doesn't understand or doesn't agree, if he exhibits this behavior again it will show he doesn't respect me or my boundaries and will result in serious consequences for the friendship.

Hard conversations to have. But really necessary. And I know being on the receiving end at least for me it helps to do a few things. One: I need someone to express that it's a serious issue for them and that they are willing to follow through with action if I can't learn to adjust my behavior. Two: I need them to be direct and specific. So "I really hate when you do that" vs "When you raise your voice to me in an argument, it's very triggering and causes me to feel threatened. I react in a hostile way to that, and I know that doesn't help either of us. So if you raise your voice and I feel myself reacting that way, I'm going to have to distance myself and we'll have to continue the conversation later." < That way I know precisely what behavior wasn't received well, why, and what will happen if I do that again. A whole lot of managing PTSD relationships is really good communication, and unfortunately you'll probably have to lead the way on that for a bit.

I also try to communicate back to them, and it's not amiss to prompt that from the other person. Sometimes the focus will be very off or there will be deflection of the behavior based on what is felt to have caused it. A simple "What are you hearing me say" or "Can you tell me what you think the problem is" will help you a lot in knowing whether you're being heard and whether the other person is at all on the same page.
 
@Solara and @Kefira I understand your message. Setting boundaries needs to be part of how I move forward on my own and it sounds like it will help us as a couple. This has not been the case with us. I am willing to work forward in any way I can.

I have a question for both of you and any one else in the forum. I have discussed a small part of the Judith Herman book with her and have to keep reassuring her that I am trying to understand so that I can heal. I am not pointing out things to shame her, but that is all I seem to accomplish. Your input on this?
 
@Unaware I haven't read that particular book, so you'd have to give more information on what exactly you're trying to address with her. And it will be different for everyone. There was a time when I couldn't read through a list of common manifestations of childhood sexual abuse later in life without curling up in a little ball and crying because I felt so worthless. Worthless because that was me, and seeing it on paper made it more real and easier to judge, but also because it made me feel I'd become exactly what my abusers wanted to make me. And I didn't have the shame of decades of secrecy compounding all of that.

Just my opinion: I'm not a mental health professional. But as far as I'm aware, neither are you. Don't try to be one to her. If she's been in denial for this long she's likely to blame herself for everything and take everything as a personal attack. I don't know the details of her situation. She may or may not be ready (now or ever) to give you those details. But it's not rational either. I am the sort of person who apologizes profusely when others run into me, partially because I was conditioned to know that not only was everything from the weather to how my abusers' day at work went was my fault but that I would be beaten for it being my fault. I still have trouble with people explaining to me that something I do (which is more obviously my fault, right?) isn't acceptable to them. It's very threatening to begin with. Then, if I don't like the behavior anyway but can't seem to get it under control, it's shameful and frustrating to boot.

I guess what I feel most reading through this thread is this: everyone experiences this disorder differently based on why they have it, who they are, and where they're at with healing. And then you're going to get a spectrum based on how everything else in life is going, and what's happening in their head that minute. But if all indications are that she's not ready to speak with you about the details of her situation or with the specifics of how this has effected her; or if she's not okay with having her behaviors pointed out to her, you have to try your best to honor that. That's not to say that you can't set your boundaries, or that if there are things you think she's unaware of and needs to know you can't address them. But there's a lot to be said for limiting those conversations, since they apparently are making her feel threatened. And you're going to need to figure out ways to heal that aren't dependent on her being ready to do X or talk about Y. That's about her healing, not you. You can't do that work for her or drag her along on your path, that pretty much always backfires particularly since a lot of adult survivors are very good at flipping the switch once pushed hard enough and start trying to outwardly meet expectations.

Just as an example, I was really struggling toward the end of my last relationship for a number of reasons, but part of it was that my then BF didn't understand why I wasn't getting better. It was causing so many fights and I just couldn't handle it. So I 'fixed' it and showed him what he seemed to want, while effectively shutting him out. I had a friend over and was talking to her because I was in crisis one evening. I hadn't really cried in months, and I was sobbing hysterically, had had a couple flashbacks that evening, and she was basically babysitting me so I didn't kill myself. He got off of work in the middle of an outburst where I was curled up on the couch sobbing and trying incoherently to talk to her. I saw his ID on the phone and without an active effort everything about where my head was at shifted to a fake smile, calm demeanor and I sweetly answered the phone, asked when he would be home, and even laughed at one of his jokes. When I got off the phone my friend was looking at me in complete horror. I think it's the first time she realized how deep the old conditioning runs.

Long post. All of that, really, to say that survivors get very good at hiding this disorder particularly those who have kept secrecy around the abuse for a long time. So pointing out her symptoms may very well feel extremely threatening to her and forcing the issue may have the opposite effect. A lot of us have believed ourselves broken and unable to be healed. So the natural response isn't as likely to be "Wow, I really need to get better" as "Wow, I haven't been hiding any of this well enough: I need to put up more walls".
 
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