In Public With Loud Children-- Do You Say Anything?

[zeropoint]

I don't have any children of my own, so I never know what I feel entitled to say/or do in situations that involve other people's parenting skills.

However, I do know what it's like to have PTSD and an exaggerated startle impulse, as well as heightened senses.

And, as I'm sure many of you know, that means that places with small children are often no-gos. I get that and can avoid those places. But sometimes those places include the library, the natural foods co-op, etc. I am at the co-op now having breakfast and a family with a couple toddlers just arrived on scene, both girls screaming bloody murder and instantaneously causing a headache in me. Their dad didn't say or do anything to correct the behavior.

I want to be sympathetic to parents, and I know that there's only so much parents can do to control how loud their kids get in public. At the same time, I don't think I should have to stay away from every business a child could possibly be at.

When you've been in similar situations, do you say anything to the parents? Do you move/get up/leave? Something else?

 

[Lucycat]

I too have no children and I sympathise. I usually just stick it out and cover my ears. But I do understand it can be tough. Sometimes I will just leave but the loud noise is just the same as loud motorbikes for example. That freaks me out too.

 

[zeropoint]

I also hate that, on one hand, it's relevant to say "I have PTSD and this is seriously troubling." But mostly I don't think I (or anyone) should have to disclose that just for people to be more responsible.

 

[catjudo]

I have opinions on this both as a person who struggles with PTSD symptoms and as a mother. But I think I'll sit back and watch this thread for a bit and see what direction it goes before I offer up my opinion. I'm just not up to dealing with the bickering that sometimes comes from these parent vs non-parent threads. Here's hoping this thread stays civil and can be helpful and supportive to members rather than just another thing to divide people.

 

[Karen12]

I carry earplugs with me everywhere. Obviously that's not conducive to having a conversation with your friends but it can give you some peace. Laundromats seem to be the worst place for me.

 

[zeropoint]

I carry earplugs with me everywhere. Obviously that's not conducive to having a conversation with your friends but it can give you some peace. Laundromats seem to be the worst place for me.

That's a good idea. I'll try that. I would feel super grumpy if I felt like I was being chased out of places, but if I always had earplugs, that would help give another option.

 

[catjudo]

I know everyone is different but I'm sure earplugs would make it worse for me. Sometimes, not always, when I feel a panic attack coming on I can use music as a distraction to either avoid it or at least lessen the length and severity. Earlier this year I tried keeping a set of ear buds with me at all times and if I was in public and felt a panic attack coming on I would plug the ear buds into my phone and play some music for myself. It actually made things worse for me because then I could not hear all of the other things going on around me. I felt very vulnerable because I had basically eliminated my ability to hear and became even more hypervigilant trying to keep track of who and what was near me at all times. I would imagine using earplugs would yield a very similar experience.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

LOL My hairdresser and I were having this convo at my last appointment. As far as I know he doesn't have PTSD, and he doesn't know that I have it. We are both single and childless, and were very much on the same page. Anyway...

If its a situation where kids are just being kids, then I realize its my issue and I cope with it in the best way that I know how. I know my tolerance limit and when I hit my tolerance or know I'm coming close, I do my best to remove myself from the situation. I, too, carry earplugs with me everywhere I go. (Today I was just thinking I should buy in bulk off of Amazon, LOL.)

I was witness to a situation where the parent was laughing at and even encouraging bad behavior. And by bad behavior, I mean SHRIEKING at the top of your lungs. That is, a four year old child was shrieking and the parent was encouraging it. This is unacceptable to me, and I don't blame the child so much as the parent for ENCOURAGING the child to misbehave in public. Kids will be kids, and if adults encourage such behavior, they're going to do it, right? Anyway, I wasn't the one who stepped up and said something, rather someone else was, and I'm glad that he did. There is no excuse for a parent to encourage bad behavior. Its quite inconsiderate.

In terms of other public places such as restaurants, I am paying for the meal as well as the experience of being there. A parent should know when to take a screaming child out of the restaurant, but oftentimes they don't. When I was a child, misbehaving in public was not accepted as my parents knew better than to sit there and say "my right to be here with a screaming child trumps your right to have a peaceful meal (or whatever)"

I really do think a key part is knowing when its bad parenting versus when its kids naturally being kids. This includes not knowing when to say when. I mean you wouldn't tolerate an adult who ruins the meals of everyone in an entire restaurant, so why should an allowance be made if a child is ruining the meals of everyone? Parents need to know when its time to remove their child from the situation, and sadly, there will always be parents out there who don't give a damn about anyone else and don't care if their kid is ruining things for you. (I'd like to think that these parents are the minority though.)

ETA

In my experience, parents oftentimes have the "I always know what's best for my kid!" attitude. Yeah, all of us who were abused by our parents know this is pure crap! Word of advice, if you come up against a parent and you know you must say something, be prepared for the backlash, ESPECIALLY if you are childless and they know it.

 

[scout86]

I was once trapped for 3 hours on a plane, sitting in front of a mother with 3 screaming toddlers........ I did the same thing I did when I was a kid and my annoying younger brother was trying to get me mad enough to take a swing at him so he could go running to my mom. I imagined a universe WITHOUT him in it. Got pretty good at that!

It kind of depends. Single parent got more on her/his plate than they can handle? I might ask if there's anything I can do to help. Maybe there IS. At least I've gently made the point that there seems to be a problem and someone noticed. In a different situation, I might actually ask the management if there's something they can do, because it IS their restaurant. Failing that, I'd probably leave, while thinking that the loud unruly children SHOULD have left.

 

[catjudo]

I was once trapped for 3 hours on a plane, sitting in front of a mother with 3 screaming toddlers

I remember being on an international flight once and there was a family that for whatever godforsaken reason had purchased tickets that were not together. Mom, Dad and their son (probably about age 10) were sitting in separate rows and opposite sides of the aisle...near enough to see each other but not near enough that the entire flight could be spared from hearing everything they said to each other. What I remember is hearing mom yell at the son over and over and over through the flight. I honestly couldn't tell you what the boy was doing that was so awful but the piercing yell of that mother I still remember very clearly to this day. It's been over 18 years since that flight and I can still tell you the name of that boy. Want to get a groan and a laugh out of the people I was traveling with at the time? Out of nowhere one of us will use our best loud, nasally voice and call out "JOSEPH!". Ugh!! Obviously in this case the mom was far worse than the child.

 

[Friday]

I was going to say earplugs as well... With the addition : drummer's earplugs.

The best ones are white, conical ones. They're not cheap as far as earplugs go ($10-20)... For a very specific reason : They allow you to hear everything. With crystal clarity. <grin> What they do is turn the volume down on the world and cancel out the sharp stab of upper register, as well as the mastoid killing whine, and the boom of lower register. Those are the parts of sound that destroy your hearing as a musician.

So you can be wearing them, and still hear footfalls, but a dropped book on concrete? Just a gentle thump, not a banging crash. Still carry on a normal conversation in a busy/crowded place, but screams are lowered in decibel.

Awesome, awesome things, drummer's earplugs.

Psychologically... A screaming child in public is also one who is not afraid of their parents. Have a girlfriend who would trigger with screaming kids, remembering her own screams, until one day she just burst out laughing. She broke her trigger. Now she's every parents worst nightmare when their kids have a meltdown. Not by being one of the many abusive strangers parents have to deal with ...She totally rewards tantrums in public.

 

[sun seeker]

It kind of depends. Single parent got more on her/his plate than they can handle? I might ask if there's anything I can do to help. Maybe there IS. At least I've gently made the point that there seems to be a problem and someone noticed.

That's probably what I would do, except in the extreme situation where the parent was actually encouraging the child to scream. I am reading this thread and appreciating the tolerance. My PTSD doesn't take the form of having problems with loud noises, so it's taking a bit of a mental stretch to imagine how nerve-wracking it must be for some people to listen to loud children, but I believe it and sympathize. On the other hand, I was a conscientious but exhausted single parent with a child who from about 3 to 6 was pretty hard to handle, and people definitely noticed. Fortunately, I mostly came across people who were very tolerant and understanding, but there were times I remember feeling so inadequate trying to handle my child in the best way and simultaneously keep everyone else happy, and there were times I would dissolve into feeling completely worthless because I knew people were judging, telling me to make sure she did as she was told, and I couldn't.

I've spoken with parents of children with disabilities like autism who go through this dynamic magnified. People can't see the disability like they could with a child in a wheelchair, they just see a child who is screaming or acting oddly, and they jump to judge the parent. Autistic children scream. A lot. There isn't much anyone can do about it. The parent is already putting in a double shift, and there may not be someone at home to take the child while they run errands. The parent is probably keenly aware of inconveniencing the people around them and trying to get out of there as fast as they can, while at the same time grieving over not being able to have the normal family experiences - like being able to go places with their child - that everyone else has. A little understanding goes a long way. A smile that says "I can see how hard this is" or an offer to help.

I do realize that isn't quite the issue the post was about. Noise does things to some of us that I thankfully can't imagine. If earplugs don't work, I'm not sure what to suggest. I just wanted to point out that in some cases, there is more going on than is immediately apparent. Just as the reaction some people have to noise is invisible to others, the difficulties some people may be having with their children is too. I appreciate everyone's tolerance.