Family And Ptsd

[ghotiff]

while he is in Florida), so it seems he is mimicking rather than it being inherent to him. Thus my dilemma. Fight it? Leave it

Is it possible to avoid him when he is in Florida but have a relationship when he is not.

A bit extreme, but if you have to take his call while his in Florida consider.... record it for later, muffle it so you only hear the gaps to respond neutrally. Then later, use voice recognition software to conver the recording of his call to text. You can skim that text to see if any facts were important, but all the tone is removed so it will not be as emotionall draining.

I echo @Muse. You are indeed a wonderful and kind person.

 

[shimmerz]

Great thinking @ghotiff! I will give that a try.

I just realized now that you put that idea out there, that the issues I have with feeling gas lighted through all of this is that there is nothing really 'said' by him that is wrong, so to speak. It is all about attitude, this condescending, arrogant, 'you are such an idiot' tone that he refuses to acknowledge. I can't figure out if he truly doesn't hear it in himself or whether he refuses to admit to when he is around his father's place. It is crazy making.

In the meanwhile I have another son, who holds my grandbaby hostage who in one breath says, 'you are a horrible mother who refuses to take responsibility' to 'but you are so kind'. It kills me to see the conflict inside of them. I refuse to have another generation in this family be exposed to this. I will walk away for their sake, as I have two grandbaby's now.

You are indeed a wonderful and kind person.

I thank you so much for this. I don't nearly always get it right, and I know that the road to hell is paved with good intentions, but I put a ton of effort into trying to be fair, and to be fair, they have gone through a ton with my PTSD reactions, and I was, after all, the one who chose their father. *heavy sigh*.

 

[Deleted member 28986]

When you chose your ex, you did the very best you knew how at the time. You deserve no blame.

it seems that the only person who has something wrong with them in this family is me

I get the distinct impression that you may be the sanest member of your immediate family. Narcissists have a way of making YOU feel like the crazy one.

I don't have kids so I can't imagine the bond you feel. It must be agonizing to watch as they act like their father. I know too well the pervasive 'you are such an idiot' tone of which narcissists seem entirely unaware. I'm sorry.

Please take care of yourself, @shimmerz, first and foremost.

 

[Powder]

Yes, he is mindlessly mimicking his father's voice. I feel compassion for your son only because I have been affected by this. His "inner critic" becomes a lecturing "outer critic" when influenced by the voice internalized that alights this critic in the first place. He has been programed. Doesn't matter that he's 30. It will be a lifelong process to undo. The accents we pick up as a child, we don't lose them those speech patterns. They die hard.

Mimicry notwithstanding, the baby shower that made your friend leave is telling that it may be more than mere mimicry. It may be real borderline or narcissistic traits of some kind that only those outside the family can perceive? I know only too well how challenging it is to try to see a family member objectively. Not possible for me. Not in me.

It is a hard place to be. If you stay, you have some ability to influence the next generation. But will it be enough to help you not feel sick.

If you get too sick, how much help can you feel you can be?

Keeps coming back to the answer must be someplace inside you, where you just know you can't take anymore crap like this, from anyone.You've said it, and I agree 100% with that concept.

We have to self-protect, especially now, and especially because nobody taught us. It is a vast victory that we can recover the protective instincts at all, so bravo, I say!!

Self-preservation systems are turning back on in a healthy way, but also in hyper-vigilant ways, (at least in my case) so it's hard to use the left brain to observe the right brain's emotional drasticizing at perceived slights. Truth be told, I have been in flashback in these kinds of situations. I perceive a tone that others do not.

I have a hard time listening to others' perceptions when I KNOW DAMN WELL I'm being attacked! I heard the tone of voice. Besides, I was gaslighted my whole life, so it has taken a lot of "thought-stopping" and correcting to work out that trusted others might not be gaslighting me now when they see me go into PTSD land.

I have evidence they are NOT doing it, but I'm not used to seeing any reality checks as anything else. That's how I see my problem with this. It's hard to see clearly how much is a healthy reclaiming of skills and boundaries and how much is hyper-vigilance or an overactive threat detection system of PTSD and learned "people are dangerous" beliefs? God, they SO were and in fact I was trivializing other's gaslighting when it was abusive. Now, I'm exaggerating the perceived threat of anyone who doesn't see how their tone was abandoning to me. This is the double-bind of PTSD and why relationships become so overwhelmingly complex inside.

When it comes down to how badly this behavior (the contempt you hear) is perceived by not only you but your friends as well, then the choice is unfortunately pretty simple. Most likely in that scenario, you're trivializing his hurtful behavior, and only seeing it when he's with his father when it's more recognizable to you? (See if that sounds right to you. I am not sure I'm getting the picture. Even if I were, I'm too non-objective as I am at zero-tolerance levels with narcissists at the moment, such that I view those who can stand their presence as "flying monkeys" or spies. I'm still too hurting.)

I'm so sorry. I can't imagine the pain this must be causing you. :( Only a wonderful person would feel it. You didn't deserve that man or any of this. This is not a good position to be in, and no, it is not your creation. It's wheels are bigger than you. You're just caught up in it.

Whatever you do, I think you will be doing the right thing.

 

[sun seeker]

Is it possible to avoid him when he is in Florida but have a relationship when he is not.

A bit extreme, but if you have to take his call while his in Florida consider.... record it for later, muffle it so you only hear the gaps to respond neutrally. Then later, use voice recognition software to conver the recording of his call to text. You can skim that text to see if any facts were important, but all the tone is removed so it will not be as emotionall draining.

Or would it be possible to limit communication to e-mail or text messaging when he is in Florida? If the problem is not what he says so much as his tone of voice, can you make it so you don't have to listen to him? Setting that limit might also be a way of letting him know there is a line you won't let him cross, without the need to confront him about something he'll likely deny.

 

[shimmerz]

Or would it be possible to limit communication to e-mail or text messaging when he is in Florida?

*heavy sigh*. I am afraid not. Gotta deal. Tough to do when my safety is tied up in staying here. I hate the dependence that this PTSD crap has brought into my life. I was uber independent before. That wasn't a bad thing.

 

[Trace911]

Robin Williams said " the worst thing is not to be alone- the worst thing is to be surrounded by people who make you feel alone." When children are grown, and no longer need parenting, I think we have to look at the closeness of the relationship we retain, and what that value is in it. If it brings you hurt, shame, pain, etc- back away. If it doesn't bring you joy, look to something that does, even it means just celebrating being autonomous for awhile.

 

[sun seeker]

I am afraid not. Gotta deal.

Sorry @shimmerz. It was worth asking. I wish there were an easy solution to all this for you, but if there were, you would already be doing it, right?

You know those self-help books that keep telling us how even if we were hurt as children we're adults now and can set our own boundaries? I wonder if the authors have any idea how hard that can be in practice.

 

[shimmerz]

It was worth asking.

Absolutely it was, and I thank you. I was not dismissing it at all @sun seeker. On the upside, I am expanding my world while I am staying here, preparing decent food to freeze, getting ready for what is to come...whatever that may be.

 

[Trace911]

I'm new at talking stuff out, and maybe I don't know jack about stuff but @shimmerz , I wondered if you are willing to clarify what you meant by your safety being dependant on staying where you are. Sometimes people use safety in place of security, meaning you have no where else you can go. Is that what you meant? I'm asking because I had a similar experience, and found an amazing and gradual way to get my feet back under me.

 

[shimmerz]

Hi @Trace911 , my situation right now is in a post called So Cal turns to No Cal. You can search it there. I would love to hear of your experience. Perhaps you could Message me?

 

[Trace911]

I tried looking up the post, but I kind of suck at this stuff. And I have no idea how to message. Talking to ppl is not a great skill of mine unless you're bleeding out.