Structural Dissociation?

[Hope4Now]

If in SD there can be no further ANP splits, it seems like an impossible task. I'm feeling surprisingly shaky about this. There is a reason for dissociation.

Oh, Sun. I hope you can breathe an be kind to you. I just got home...I Will hunt up your diary tomorrow. tonight, can you be with your parts...just noticing them and letting them know you are here now for them instead of being IN them? Calming energy to you!

@greenleaf ...you are so not an alien to me. Maybe that's cuz we're all aliens on this forum! I liked your response to the ifs and sd post I wrote.

 

[sun seeker]

Can you try for cooperation between the ANP and EPs, as best as possible?

It sounds good. I'm just not sure what it would look like. My EPs are being a lot louder than my ANP at the moment. I was able to talk with a friend about this a little bit, but she had to go pretty quickly. As far as we got was that it might be a good idea to disclose to the teacher that I have PTSD and when I need to pass on a question in a sharing circle, I REALLY need to pass and should not be pushed.

Also however like an alien nutcase now that I've written this down.

Greetings, fellow alien. You have no idea how it helps to talk to people who don't look at me like I have two heads.
(That was supposed to be a compliment, I'm not sure how well that comes across.)

 

[sun seeker]

tonight, can you be with your parts...just noticing them and letting them know you are here now for them instead of being IN them?

I'll try @Hope4Now, and thank you so much for responding.

 

[Hope4Now]

try mindful movement and breathing? Remind yourself that you are here now and safe. That what you are feeling will pass if you can just be with it and not fall into it? I find movement good for this...let the eps express their concerns and fears through the movement so you can witness them from a place of self? I'm putting all these question marks because...well I'm kind of feeling like an alien :alien:

Edited to say I guess I'm just repeating what I just said. Sorry...am kind of scrambled tonight but want you to know I hear you and am thinking of you.

 

[sun seeker]

You made me smile Hope. Thank you. Now I think about movement, what appeals to me actually is drawing. That's a step, I wasn't aware of anything I might want to do before. I'll try that and see if they can express themselves that way.

Thank you for your help. I hope you're okay today.
:hug::hug::hug:

 

[Hope4Now]

If in SD there can be no further ANP splits, it seems like an impossible task. I'm feeling surprisingly shaky about this. There is a reason for dissociation.

@sun seeker you might be interested in these paragraphs from http://www.trauma-pages.com/a/nijenhuis-2004.php:

The conflict between approach and avoidance that cannot be resolved by the child promotes a structural dissociation of the attachment system and the defensive system. In cases of primary structural dissociation, the ANP can be attached to the perpetrating or neglectful caretaker(s), while being more or less dissociated from, and otherwise avoidant of the EP that represents the defensive system and that encompasses traumatic memories of abuse and neglect. The ANP may also display avoidant attachment, and the EP can be secondarily dissociated into an additional EP that represents the attachment system (i.e., the childlike part of the personality that loves the perpetrating parent; the part of the personality that desires attachment to a "stronger and wiser" therapist, etc.), and an EP that represents the defensive system. The dissociative parts of the personality that avoid awareness of attachment needs display phobia of attachment, resulting in avoidance of contact, pseudo-independence, and disconnection from basic self needs. Parts of the personality that are dedicated to fulfilling attachment needs display phobia of emotional loss, manifesting in fears of abandonment, clinging behaviors, intolerance of aloneness, and regressive dependency.

Like differentiation of the EP, division of the ANP may occur as well, which we have called tertiary structural dissociation (Nijenhuis & Van der Hart, 1999; Van der Hart, Van der Kolk, & Boon, 1998). Tertiary structural dissociation, which characterizes DID, does not occur during trauma, but rather emerges when certain inescapable aspects of daily life become associated with past trauma, i.e., have become conditioned stimuli that tend to reactivate traumatic memories. An example is provided by a DID patient with a history of childhood sexual abuse. When she became pregnant and needed prenatal examinations by an obstetrician, she developed a new ANP which was able to tolerate the physical examinations without intrusion of traumatic memories. Stimulus generalization from past trauma also may make daily life increasingly difficult, and constant triggering may further lower mental levels, so that some DID patients produce ANPis to deal with the slightest conflicted, unpleasant, or new task. This is the exception to the rule, however.

 

[sun seeker]

Thanks Hope! Yes, this is helpful. I kept nodding through the first paragraph. Not having DID, I don't think I am capable of tertiary structural dissociation. So far I don't seem to be, anyway. I got through yesterday a little better, though.

 

[Hope4Now]

I'm back, the queen of mixed metaphors and tortured analogies. I'm realizing that this is just the way my brain works...crazy but helpful to me at least.

Yesterday, my therapist texted me after a tough session, he wrote: "Just keep breathing..." In my mind, I suddenly heard Ellen DeGeneres's voice as Dory from Finding Nemo. "Just keep swimming...." So I looked up the scene. This scene made me laugh...just watch it as if it's a dramatization of the inner life of a structurally dissociated person...all the parts interacting...memory attempting to integrate...things to do...places to go...

 

[Hope4Now]

oops...I posted the wrong one. It didn't have the whole scene where Dory is trying to memorize what's on the mask, etc. But, you get the idea anyway, hopefully.

 

[Hope4Now]

Hi Everybody! I'm putting this here briefly because it relates so perfectly to this thread, but will write more in my diary. Today my therapist asked me a question about whether one of my child parts knows what happened to her. I was beginning to nod yes she does (because of course she does...right? I mean she's part of me!!!) Then he repeated, "Let's hear from her whether she knows." And I suddenly realized she didn't. But another part popped in and said he knew :wideeyed:! So my therapist says, "Can he tell her?" And he did. And then all hell kind of broke loose inside me...felt like I was watching a really bad film. Then things settled and it was okay. All in a period of minutes. As I'm thinking about this now, a lot of things make much more sense now...and that clarity explains some other inexplicable things from later in my life. Whew. All sounds so crazy...but it is real stuff. Surreal, but real.

Also, I am reading an old book called The Stranger in the Mirror by the psychiatrist who developed the SCID. I can't remember if someone mentioned it on this thread, or elsewhere, but it is hugely helpful and interesting.

 

[Hope4Now]

:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao: I've been on this forum for more than a year now, and I just discovered my profile page. Well, I must have discovered it at some point (I liked a couple of messages on it) but then I forgot about it. As the queen of mixed metaphor and tortured analogies, I have to say that this discovery is just so perfect for somebody who rolls along in life with little awareness of who she is. Ha. Ha. Ha.

 

[shimmerz]

Jeez, have I missed a TON! Apparently I have been down for the count over the past bit. I doubt you missed me but I missed you guys!

What marks DID is the profound phobia among parts that lead to true amnesia (not dissociative amnesia). (This distinction still confuses me).

I thought this was about time loss Hope, but apparently all dissociative amnesias can fall into this category. I seems it takes a highly trained professional to figure out the difference between true amnesia and dissociative amnesia.

IFS theory proposes that all of us have SELF energy

I honestly believe that SD Theory will have a hard go of it without a concept of SELF. I like the idea that IFS has a SELF component. We spoke earlier in this thread about integrating into ANP but I think that is not quite where we should be at. Just my opinion. I posted a thread on the open forum (probably not a great plan) on Myself and Dissociation that talks about getting to SELF. I didn't want it mixed up in here was my reasoning at the time.

SELF takes the lead in life rather than one or more of the parts.

I totally agree that this should be the way it goes. I believe the SELF is not 'damaged' and can be a SAFE place for EPs and ANPs to go.