Out of Body Experiences

[trishok]

Talked to my doctor yesterday about dissociation and out of body experiences.
He says that there is nothing supernatural about leaving the body at traumatic times. Says the brain tricks us into thinking we have left so that we can survive by not going insane at that moment. He says feeling "out of body" is all in the mind. I am not really convinced at this time.
With dissociation, he says it is a very strong self-protective coping mechanism when feeling threatened, and again is to prevent psychosis.
(such as becoming delusional, hearing voices, etc ????).
Does anyone have any input on this topic please?
Trish
:hello:

 

[Jade-]

Alot of my memories from childhood I'm out of my body. Sometimes I was watching from across the room, sometimes right beside myself.

Most of them though, it was like I was one step behind myself, walking or standing just behind my own back. Like watching a movie of myself instead of seeing through my own eyes. Weird.

I've also had that happen as an adult and was beside myself, watching myself drive. And I just realized when I'm in sessions, I'm not actually seeing my therapist from where I'm sitting, I'm seeing him on a different side of the room. I was thinking he moved the furniture around, but I think I may be outside my body while I'm in there.

 

[James B.]

The types of experiences being described here, by trishok and (to an extent) by Jadebear seem to fit into the type of paranormal experience called "Autoscopy" - the perception of viewing one's self and/or surroundings from a vantage point from outside ones body.

This stuff isn't accepted by science. Credible individuals have written accounts of Autoscopy during NDE (near neath experiences) and also in high altitude mountaineering and marathon running.

A common denominator here (in most cases) seems to be exposure to prolonged or peak stressors involving massive amounts of adrenaline/endorphins.

Autoscopy, as written about by Himalayan alpinist Doug Scott is not dissociation. It is a paranormal peak experience in a prolonged and/or extremely high stress environment/situation.

Accounts of Autoscopy by people who have experienced cardiac arrest and have momentarily "died" are many. Accounts of Autoscopy by individuals being attacked and injured by wild animals exist too.

Maybe being raped or vilolated in a similar manner qualifies as a situation that could perhaps evoke Autoscopy?

Again, not recognized by science, hence not explainable by conventional means - hence the mental health profession is going to unable to explain this, or basically any paranormal event/experience.

Still, highly credible sources like Doug Scott have experienced and written about Autoscopy and other paranormal events like Premonition (inner voice) while under peak stress and in critical situations.

Still, the "paranormal" isn't science, but then again, neither is the concept of (or widespread belief in) "God".

 

[Iam]

I have heard of this from so many people. Including my grandmother when she was clinically dead. She was up in a corner near the ceiling looking down at herself and hearing the doctor pronounce her dead. Funny that she still didn't believe in life after death after having this experience. I don't remember ever having that happen to me. I just have amnesia about some of my traumas. But, in remembering traumas....I frequently am looking at the situation from a different vantage point, I can see myself and the other people involved, but most of the time I can't remember what it was like inside my body. Does that make any sense?

 

[Jade-]

I don't think it's a paranormal event james. I think it's just dissociation, a psychological defense mechanism.

But, you never know, you could be right. But, how would that explain being a "step" behind myself during childhood? Surely I wasn't in a constant state of autoscopy..?

 

[James B.]

You are probably right Jadebear - trust your instincts. Your experiences are yours.

My own memory of my incest is seen from above and to the left, from near the top of the cieling. With the exception of having memories of the bedspread, the pattern, colors and its smell. From these memories I confronted my abuser, he admited it, validating them. I may have had more clear "impressions" earlier in life, not sure.

Your experience with dissociation in your T's office sounds really interesting. For me, it was always been hard to guage just how much stress I was under (or am having now) since I grew up with an anxiety disorder.

My main adult dissociative experience was sitting in my T's office, and imagining being on the beach, the sand, smells sounds of the gulls, and my T's voice coming to me from a seeming long long way away. Generally in my life, dissociation has been a vague "checking out" when I kinda go blank, and thoughts of my abuse or related events/obsessions occur.

I think I may have experienced Autoscopy at age 4 while I was being molested by my brother, but, who knows?

One idea though - if the brain wires itself for a given need-based task, and that task gets repeated (especially at a younger age) it seems a type of "learning" occurs. Just thinking out loud, really. Fun discussion. "Loose theory" and nothing more.

Again, from what you described, viewing your self from accross the room, it "reads" like autoscopy, but is probably just your way of dissociating.

 

[Jade-]

So I am wondering if maybe my whole childhood was spent dissociating?

Most of the time now I don't feel like I'm actually in my body. I always feel a step behind myself or right beside myself, but rarely inside my body.

My T. says part of healing is seeing and hearing things through my own eyes and ears. I obviously have a way to go before I get there.

 

[disconnect]

I have flashbacks where I'm right next to myself, watching myself being kicked and dragged up the stairs etc. It's weird, but I can't help thinking how amazing the body is for doing this to protect itself.

 

[James B.]

It *is* amazing.

Its also intersting, Jadebear, that you chose to post your experiences on an "out of body experiences" thread, and not one about dissociation. :-)

Feel my abuse "altered" my mind. Maybe its just the hippocampus. IDK. It was sure interesting to me, to have experiences with precognition, that read just like the ones Doug Scott described. A distinct "inner" voice, a "gut-grab", a physcial sensation that came from my solar plexus, and directed my attention toward the direction of the event I was *somehow* aware of. Had this more than once.

Scott's inner voice, as he decribed it, woke him up at about 3AM (he'd had similar experiences at this hour before) and told him the weather would be clear. He accepted the experience as valid, and led his team to a succesful ascent of an 8000 meter peak.

Meaning, he was so convinced that his precognition was real, he risked his life and the life of his team (3 other Himalayan vetrans) based on it. His team mates didn't question his judgement either, noteable because they had just barely survived - only hours earlier - a sudden huge storm that had literally almost blown them off the mountain.

Incedible stuff.

 

[disconnect]

It *is* amazing.

Its also intersting, Jadebear, that you chose to post your experiences on an "out of body experiences" thread, and not one about dissociation. :-)

Feel my abuse "altered" my mind. Maybe its just the hippocampus. IDK. It was sure interesting to me, to have experiences with precognition, that read just like the ones Doug Scott described. A distinct "inner" voice, a "gut-grab", a physcial sensation that came from my solar plexus, and directed my attention toward the direction of the event I was *somehow* aware of. Had this more than once.

Scott's inner voice, as he decribed it, woke him up at about 3AM (he'd had similar experiences at this hour before) and told him the weather would be clear. He accepted the experience as valid, and led his team to a succesful ascent of an 8000 meter peak.

Meaning, he was so convinced that his precognition was real, he risked his life and the life of his team (3 other Himalayan vetrans) based on it. His team mates didn't question his judgement either, noteable because they had just barely survived - only hours earlier - a sudden huge storm that had literally almost blown them off the mountain.

Incedible stuff.

I love hearing things like this. :smile:

It makes you wonder what it is that's actually leaving the body. people say it's your soul that leaves, but surely, you feel something deep in your soul? An out of body experience isn't felt, it's disconnected from emotion. Sorry, just thinking out loud..

 

[Grama-Herc]

Trishok,

I know your feelings and emotions, except I do not remember my trauma. I disassociated when traumatized--no doubt in my mind but I've spent most of my life that way. I remember almost nothing of my life as a child, teen or young woman.

As a prime example of my blank memory----I recently was contacted by a gentleman who I apparently dated in high schol for over a year. I know it is true as mother remembers the fellow. But not me. Any memories I have recovered is due to photos. Wedding pictures, graduation photos, etc. I was 10 when my sister was born--don't even remember having a sister. I know I did/do got pictures of me holding a baby(sister).

I have panci/anxiety really bad and have all my life so I've been disassociating my entire life I guess. Any time stress rears its' ugly head Guess I go away so to speak. There are years when I was raising my daughter that are huge blanks.

Even now, sometimes I will look up at the clock and I've lost several hours of time. It is unnerving to say the least. Just an example of someone else with this.

 

[lrs]

I had this type of experience once. It was around January, 2002. My supervisor had been riding my case about an issue I had no control over. She called me into her office, to bitch and moan some more. I truly believed my job was on the line. My state of mind was about as bad as it ever got. She was sitting at her desk, and I was standing about 3 feet into the doorway. My soul, spirit, or what have you, rose out of my body, and hovered into the upper corner of that office. I was looking down on the 2 of us, but I was directly over my body. I can still recall this vividly.

About 3-4 weeks later, my brother picked me up from my house, and we were en route to a psyche hospital. I felt we had to stop at where I worked, which itself was a psyche hospital. The 3 of us went into a conference room, I described how I had PTSD, was a recovering addict, had relapsed, and was going to be admitted into another psychiatric hospital. She had no idea of any of this.

I confronted her about her treatment of me, and described what it had done to me that day. She was not angry, and truly seemed very concerned for my well being. I was told I would not lose my position as Director of Pharmacy. I was in the psyche hospital for a week, then discharged. The next day, I was readmiited into another psyche hospital. Again, the State Board of Pharmacy had to intervene. They sent me to a drug rehab, that had a program for people with PTSD. I was there for so long, they had no choice but to find a replacement for me. The rehab did pretty good as far as sobriety went, but did absolutely nothing for my PTSD. I know it may be difficult for some to be skeptical that a person's spirit can leave their body. It does not jive with science I suppose, but we do not know everything.